Special Guest Expert - Divya Ramachandran: Video automatically transcribed by Sonix

Special Guest Expert - Divya Ramachandran: this mp4 video file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Brian Kelly:
So here's the big question. How are entrepreneurs like us who have been hustling and struggling to make it to success, who seem to make it one step forward only to fall two steps back? Who are dedicated. Determined, and driven? How do we finally break through and win? That is the question. And this podcast. Will give you the answers. My name is Brian Kelly and this is the Mind Body Business show. Hello everyone and welcome, welcome, welcome to the Mind Body Business Show. We have a fantastic show lined up for you because the amazing the one, the only Divya Ramachandran is on with us tonight. And I cannot wait to introduce you to this young, brilliant woman who has pivoted from a corporate life into an entrepreneurial life. And it's really interesting how she's gone about that transition and what she continues to do to make strides in her business. And I can't wait for you to hear from her and learn what strategies she has implemented that have helped her to improve her business every step of the way. And look, if you're a grizzled veteran and you've been doing business for 30 years, or you've you're just starting out or you're somewhere in between. One thing that remains consistent and constant with successful entrepreneurs, and that is we are always looking for ways to improve. We are always looking for ways to excel, take that next step and scale our business even further. And that is what this show is all about. So for you, the viewer, it doesn't matter where you are in your in your walk or your journey with entrepreneurship. It doesn't matter if you're just beginning. Maybe you don't even have a business yet. I guarantee you, if you watch this show from beginning to end because of Divya, you are going to learn actionable strategies and things that you can put into process right now and take your business to yet another level, a higher level. It doesn't mean you're going to jump all the way to the top, but every little step along the way matters because they build on each other. So this is the mind body business show, and I'm your host, Brian Kelly.

Brian Kelly:
And this show was developed for you. For you, that is the entrepreneur, the budding business individual who is looking to take their business to the next level. And it's based on what I call the three pillars of success. And they are part of the very namesake of this show. And that is, yeah, you guessed it, mind, body and business. So mind stands for mindset. And I learned this gosh, now almost 13 years ago, how important the mind is in anyone's success and everyone's success. I did not realize how important until that time ago. And it's all about, uh, individuals who I had studied over a period of, say, about ten years. They were just successful people, that's all. I focused on only successful people. And what I found out is that to a person, each of them carried these three characteristics mindset. They each had a very powerful, positive and most importantly, flexible mindset and body. Body is that they literally took care of themselves both physically and nutritionally and business. Now business is very multifaceted. It covers basically the mastering of various skill sets that are necessary to develop a successful business and then to keep it scaling, thriving and growing skill sets like marketing, sales, team building, systematizing, leadership. I could go on and on and on. Yeah, there's a lot. And you know what? Being an astute individual as you are, you know that mastering any one area of any part of our life can take a long time. What was it? There's so many 20, 30, 10,000 hours to master, to become an expert at any one thing. Mastering a skill sets the same thing. Be an expert. So the good news is, you personally don't have to master every skill set that's necessary yourself by yourself. And there is one skill set that if you were to focus on it and if you were to develop it, and if you were to even take yourself on the path toward mastery, you don't even have to achieve it yet. You can use that skill set to then spread out, to delegate into the others and pull people in who have already mastered or on their way to mastering those skill sets that you have yet to master or may never master, just based on the time we have available on this earth.

Brian Kelly:
And if you want to know what that one skill set is, I'll let you know what that is. And you're going to love this because the guest we have tonight, Divya Ramachandran, is an expert in this area. If you just master this one skill set, the skill set of. Oh, and it was one of them I just mentioned. And there are many more behind, behind beyond what I just mentioned. I know, I'm teasing. Huh? Just get to it already. Brian. What is that one skill set? It is the skill set of leadership. That's right. Even if you are a solopreneur, which I was not too long ago myself. And if you're a solopreneur, that's okay. Now lead yourself and there are books written on this. Treat yourself as if you are one of your own team members. Get in the practice of well, what I how would I react to that form of leadership and all the things that go with it? And Divya's going to be divulging some amazing skills that you can learn and wrap yourself around during this very show. This is going to be a huge show, so I implore upon you to take notes, pay attention and focus, especially when Divya comes on, which is going to be in just a few moments. And another additional great trait I noticed of these very successful people was that to a person, they were also very avid readers of books. And so with that, we're going to switch over to a very short segment I affectionately call bookmarks.

Announcer:
Bookmarks. Born to read. Bookmarks. Ready. Steady. Read. Bookmarks brought to you by Reach your Peak Library.com.

Brian Kelly:
Yes. There you see Richard Peak library.com. And just a very quick aside, if I may, this is for you. Uh, what I always tell folks is now you're going to be learning about a lot of resources on this show. Divya will have some. She'll have a gift to give to you later on on the show. Uh, you see this one? Reach your peak. Library.com. Now, what I implore upon you is that instead of succumbing to that desire to go, click off on another tab and do the research while this show is running, while you're watching it live, which I hope you are, or while you're listening on a podcast, either one is fine. Focus on the show. The the magic happens in the room. Because here's the thing When Divya comes on, she will be, like I said, divulging a great amount of strategies and tips and things that you can glean on to take and run with, and then maybe even connect with her later so that you can go deeper into the skill set of leadership, which I would highly recommend. And if you were to miss one, one little tidbit of information that she would divulge during the show. And it happened to be while you were off doing that research to that other tab. Well, then you might have just missed the one piece of information that could have propelled your business to the next level. It's happened before. I kid you not, I've seen this happen while I've taught from stage. I've seen people get up. They got to go to the bathroom, or they have that all important text on their phone and they just have to attend to it. Like I would implore upon you that if that happens to you, hit the pause button. If you're not watching this live and um, or I would say, get a pen, get a pencil, get ready because you're in for a great ride. All right, enough about that. I'm off my soapbox, but that is for you, not for me. So literally get out a pen and paper and take notes would be my, um, suggestion. And that would be write down. You can start right now by writing down reach your peak Library.com.

Brian Kelly:
It's a free resource. There's nothing for sale by me on it. There are books for sale from Amazon directly. And so what it is, is a collection of books that I personally have read, and so not every book I've ever read is in this collection. It's only those books that have had a profound impact on me, either professionally or personally or both. Often, oftentimes it is both, usually because business and personal lives have a lot of commonalities to them. And they are in here in no rhyme, no reason. So find the book that is most compelling to you that either you haven't read or you want to read again, and you don't know where your copy is. And look, if you want to get it at your local bookstore, please go do that. There's no need to get it from this website if you like to cater to another, um, vendor and that's fine. This is just here to give you the, the, the ideas to say, look, there's a book. That one looks good. Big boom. That's my mentor Mel Cutler that's flying up there. Oh my gosh I almost forgot to mention. And I haven't even put this on the list. But I just released my own book called Mind Body Business. How? Oh wow. Where do you think that name came from? Yes, this book actually inspired this very show. Yes, this book started over ten years ago, and I finally finished it just a couple months ago. And, um, this show has only been running for a little over five years. So this book, the idea, the concept, the name is all from this book. And so, yes, many books in there. Um, you can click on the buy here that takes you to Amazon. You can pick what flavor you like, which is audiobook, um, paperback, physical, whatever is available for each particular book. No rhyme or reason. Just scroll down and grab the first one that kind of pops off the screen for you to read your next book. Because these are. These have given me incredible, incredible results over the years. I was not an avid reader myself till around the age of 47, which was nearly almost 13 years ago.

Brian Kelly:
And I'll pause there so you can I'll do the math. Yes, I'm approaching the big six zero. It's amazing. I'm actually excited. It's like I'm I'm. I can almost say I made it all right. With that, we are going to bring on the amazing Divya Ramachandran right now. Let's get to it.

Announcer:
It's time for the guest expert. Spotlight. Savvy. Skillful. Professional. Adept. Trained. Big league qualified.

Brian Kelly:
And there she is, ladies and gentlemen. Yes, it is the one that is the only Divya Ramachandran. Oh, yes. Welcome to the show. Divya. How are you doing tonight?

Divya Ramachandran:
I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me here.

Brian Kelly:
Oh my goodness. Uh, and you know, as a former fellow Californian, I welcome the. This is awesome. Um, I still have a warm spot in my heart for California recently moved loving Florida. Uh, but Californians are near and dear to my heart as well. So glad you're here. So we are coming across from entirely different ends of the United States together. Uh, Divya, what I'd like to do is, is basically introduce you in a way that is deserving of you with respect. And it also will give people a bit of a backdrop, an idea of where your expertise lies, where you've been, to show them that you're not. This just didn't happen in a day that you have put in the time and the effort. Would that be okay?

Divya Ramachandran:
Absolutely. Thank you.

Brian Kelly:
All right. Divya Ramachandran, PhD, Professional Certified Coach, is a distinguished leadership coach transitioning from a successful career in tech to empowering leaders at tech startups. That's near to me, baby, I love tech. Born to South Asian immigrants in Salt Lake City, Utah, Divya navigated the complexities of identity and excellence from a young age. It gets deeper. This is good stuff. Her academic journey led her from computer engineering to a profound discovery at UC Berkeley, where she realized her passion for using technology to address human needs. It's very interesting. This epiphany, coupled with a transformative experience in executive coaching, redirected her path toward leadership coaching. I told you, it's about leadership. Divya specializes in guiding tech startup leaders, leveraging her expertise in energy awareness. This. You don't hear this from hardly any leadership expert out there. This is cutting edge stuff from my vantage point anyway. Also, cognitive behavioral coaching and emotional intelligence. Yes, all the intangibles that so many people don't ever address. And she does all this to foster trust, connection and effective communication within teams. Her work focuses on helping leaders achieve clarity, to resolve conflicts, and to enhance productivity. That's everything you want in a business, let alone a leader fundamentally believing in the power of understanding oneself to lead others effectively. That is what it's all about. That is what Divya is all about as far as business goes. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the amazing, the one and only Divya Ramachandran. I hope I'm doing that good. Every time. All right. All right. So one of the things I love to open the show with Divya is, is around the mind. And it's a really cool one because I asked nearly every guest a similar question. And that is, you know, being an entrepreneur, as I'm sure you are aware, is not always, you know, rose petals and swimming and hammocks and and you know, those umbrella drinks and you just sipping them while you're making money just hand over fist. It's everything but that that it's the opposite. It's it can be arduous. It can be challenging. Everything we love is entrepreneurs, but also everything we must overcome.

Brian Kelly:
And that's what makes us entrepreneurs. So for you, knowing those hurdles face you that are there every single day, every single day. How am I going to get my next client? What do I need to do for billing? How do I how do I, uh, deliver the end product? What do I do? What tweaks do I make? What team do I bring in? I mean, it just never ends and it's awesome. I love that part of it that it never ends. But for you, when you are getting up in the morning, like when you're coming to, you're waking up, your eyes are opening and you know you're starting to feel like, okay, I'm amping up. I'm almost back to, okay, now I'm back. What is going through your mind at that very moment that is keeping you driven, motivated and determined to push through and keep going forward with your business so that you can serve more people? What is it for you?

Divya Ramachandran:
Mhm. Great question. Thank you. And thanks for that amazing introduction and all of that. So what gets me up in the morning. What's motivating me to keep doing this work. It's really the impact that I know the work can have. So it's been a journey for me to land at this profession and to decide this is what I want to do. As you said, I was in tech, I was leading a team, and I went through a lot of different challenges as I was trying to do that, got introduced to leadership coaching and then realized, wow, this is this is not just something I need for me as a leader. This is something I want to be helping others with. And so when I see that I'm working with somebody and it's it's unlocking something for them that they're actually like feeling freer to go and do address the challenges that they have. That work is so impactful that I just I love my job, and so I want to keep doing that. And so I know that in order to do the work that I want to do in the way I want to do it, I've got to keep working on my business. I've got to keep putting the time, the effort, whatever it is in to grow it, to increase the impact that I'm able to have on the individuals impact more people. Impact teams help businesses thrive. I think that is really that impact.

Brian Kelly:
And I heard the word and I love this. I love what I get to do. I heard the word help numerous times. That is what drives a true in my. This is my own humble opinion, a true entrepreneur. And that's the people I've interviewed on this show, Divya, for five plus years, we all share that one trait that we are here to help people. That's what motivates us. That's what brings us joy. That's why so many like you, you and myself left corporate to, you know, go after that dream of helping people because we have the ability to do that easier if we're not working for someone else, and so many other things that go with it. And kudos to you for taking on this daunting task of becoming a successful entrepreneur, because, well, anyone who's ever been down this path realizes, uh, maybe not fully yet, but they all realize that they are, uh, they have quite a bit in front of them to make it all work. And it takes a lot of work, dedication, perseverance, determination, everything that goes with it. And you have all that. And so that's the beautiful thing is you are teaching leadership and they will be able to look at you and say, yes, you. I'm learning from a leader and that's what people want. They want to learn from those who have done it, not just coached it or talked about it. And so you've been there and in a tech environment. Divya. Oh my gosh, I can't imagine I can, but it's just, you know, all the different personalities you get in the tech environment are crazy. Uh, you know, the nerds that can't talk very well, they have no social, um, social skills or fewer social skills. Uh, and then you have others that do nothing but talk, and they won't be quiet. And, uh. Yes. And everything in between. And and the thing is, they're usually pretty bright. And so that that challenge is great in that, in that field to be a leader. And so God bless you for going through that. And I think I think because you did that's what makes you such a strong person to do what you're doing, to help others to lead because you've been in one of the most difficult, uh, um, cultures, if you will, to make that happen. So, um, so what was it that made you to decide? You know what? I've had enough. I mean, we kind of mentioned it in the bio, but you were in the corporate world. Was there one thing that just kind of tipped you over the edge and said, I just, I gotta, I gotta separate from that, and I want to go do this. I want to teach leadership directly. Was there an event, an incident or just a realization that it was time? Yeah.

Divya Ramachandran:
I would say it was one of each of those. Um, there was there was a realization at a moment when I was, I was leading the product team. It's an AI startup. We were having a hard time. The company wasn't doing so well. Um, which of course, if it was doing well, I might not be in this position right now. Um, but there were a lot of different challenges going on. And at the same time, I also have a family. I have two children who were much younger at the time. And so there was this sort of realization that this job was not adding value to my life. In fact, it was detracting value. It was actually creating stress that was making it so that neither was work enjoyable, but neither was the rest of my life. Right. And it was creating this a lot. And I ended up working with an executive coach during that time. And that's when I heard about leadership as a as a skill, as a set of skills, as a, as a area of expertise at all. Because I had just fallen into leadership. I could do my job well and I had grown right, understanding that there was such a thing and understanding that so much of leadership, as you alluded to while I was still a backstage, um, so much of leadership is about who you are and how you're showing up for your team. And leadership is really not about telling somebody else what to do and telling them to do it, you know, in a strong voice. It's really about understanding yourself and bringing people along on a journey, but really understanding where they're coming from as well. So there were a lot of light bulbs that went off. Um, uh, what went on? I should say, um, while I was getting coached, uh, and going through those, um, through those sessions, I ended up leaving that job just based on this realization that I'm not doing I'm not living the life that I'm envisioning for myself. So I left and did some exploration. And while I was doing that, exploration coaching just kept coming up as like, should I? I think, I think I need to explore this, I think I need to explore this.

Divya Ramachandran:
And so I signed up for a coach training program, kind of on a whim, like just let me explore and see what this is like. You don't have to sign up for the whole thing up front. You can just do kind of the first module, right? So I signed up for the first module day one. Mind you, I haven't even committed to the whole program, but day one, I committed to this for life. It was so clear. It was just everything. Everything was coming together. So if there was an event that really led me to that, it was that just sort of understanding this framework, seeing how it fit into the tech world where I had expertise, seeing how it fit in to the life I wanted to lead and to have, like the kind of family life I wanted to have as well. Just all of those together. It just made it so clear that this was it, and I was going to put go all in.

Brian Kelly:
That's wow. That is that's pretty like convincing that, uh, I think it was time with all those things coming at you. There was this movie some time ago called Bruce Almighty. Uh, forgot the name of the comedian. Um, he's he's incredible. But he was driving along and he had rosary beads. It's raining and he's driving in the car and he's saying, God, just give me some kind of sign, any kind of sign. And then in front of him, you remember this, don't you? It was a stake bed truck with nothing but signs like stop, go back, danger ahead, all these other negative things. And he just kept saying, any kind of sign, God. In the next scene, as he's wrapped around a telephone pole, or he went into one, uh, in his car and you just were given all those signs. That's what it made me think of. Uh, similar thing happened to me in transitioning my business. So that's. I can relate greatly, but yours, those were stacked quite, uh, deep. That was awesome. Um, it's almost like you can't refute it. You have to go with it. Uh, and so. And but really, I would say kudos to you for taking that leap. That is not for the faint of heart. Was it a little bit scary in the beginning?

Divya Ramachandran:
Sometimes I look back at it and I was like, was it? Why wasn't I scared? And I think sometimes you're just driven by conviction or was I just naive? Sometimes I'm not too sure, but one or the other. And I think you have to have a little bit of both to be an entrepreneur, to just take that, to take that risk and to take that leap of faith. You have to not be fully thinking. You have to kind of be following your heart. And, uh, that was a moment where I feel like that was my heart. That was my intuition telling me to do something. And I still have to tap back into that at times. At times when I'm just wondering, what is this? What I should keep doing is this, you know, I love I love the work, but is it satisfying everything for my life? Um, and, you know, there's a lot of work that's involved here. And would it be better to be, you know, getting a getting a paycheck? Um, is the security would the security be better? But there's that intuition inside that keeps saying like, no, this is it. Keep following this.

Brian Kelly:
I love how you said you have to not be fully thinking. And that is the hardest thing to do for someone analytical, such as you and I, coming from that background of software engineering. I mean, you have to be to excel at that job or that position and to kind of pull that back that that took me quite some time. I was, you know, paralysis by analysis. You know, you overanalyze it to death. And by the time you're finished analyzing, it's ten years have gone by and you haven't done anything, uh, positive toward your business. So, I mean, you have you have discovered and learned many things very young in your life. And that is great. And kudos to you and to everyone watching and listening. The sooner you do, the better for you as well. If the entrepreneur life is for you, if you're already an entrepreneur, you can probably relate to everything she has said so far. So getting into leadership itself now, um, have you ever dealt with or experienced someone who was your leader, who went about things in a way that didn't feel right, that weren't 100% in alignment with the way you think a leader should treat their people. Did that ever happen to you?

Divya Ramachandran:
Sure. Oh, yes. Yes it has.

Brian Kelly:
And so what? What thoughts? You know, taking from that. Can you look at that? How important? Let me ask you this. How important is it for you and your coaching, not only to know how to lead and also how not to lead? Is that equally as important when you're coaching and training your clients in leadership?

Divya Ramachandran:
Yeah, yeah. So in the framework that I use, and this has helped me also kind of retrospectively look at my experiences and the leaders that I've worked with and the judgment that I felt towards them in the moment, um, in the framework that I'm using and that I'm trained in. We're essentially talking about there's a lot of different styles that you can bring to your leadership, and you don't have to be stuck in one. Right. And so I want to broaden the term leadership, especially, um, again, you mentioned something in your intro around what leadership is. And this it's not just about how you are with your team, right? Any situation where you're interacting with another individual and influencing in one way or the other, in one direction or the other, that's an opportunity for leadership, right? And so if you're thinking about it from that perspective, in every situation, you have some choices. You have different choices about how you can approach that, how you can, how you can lead, how you can influence in that moment. And so I think that knowing what are the pros and cons of the different choices that you have, and choosing the one that's most suitable for that situation is what's key. So I look now I can think of a specific leader that I worked with who I just we did not align in terms of the pace in which we operated. I tend to work really fast. Anyone who knows me knows that like there's just movement all the time. I'm doing things and making decisions. Let's push for this. Let's look for look for an answer here. Let's solve this problem. And this other leader was bringing a different approach, which was really about like, sometimes you need to wait, sometimes you need to wait for things to unfold. Sometimes you need to wait to bring people along and you can't be so, you know, pushy about things. Sometimes you just have to be and let other people figure it out. Right. And so we butted heads quite a bit in terms of just I'm just like, but do it lead, you know, and they're they're like, they're leading. Um, and so now when I look at those situations and I evaluate what that leader was like, I recognize that that was just a different style. And it has its pros as well. And there was more to the story that they understood that maybe I didn't understand. And so I think just having a more holistic understanding of what it means to lead is really helpful.

Brian Kelly:
Do you find that effective leaders are flexible enough to lead different people in different ways? Maybe micro change, different things to meet or match that person's like emotional intelligence, like was in your bio that you talked about or their personality, uh, or their speed at which they like to work. That may not be as fast as yours. Do you find that effective leadership includes being flexible to work with individuals at different levels than the team as a whole?

Divya Ramachandran:
Yes. And so I think that an effective leader needs to hold everyone accountable. That's they have to be clear about their expectations. They have to provide feedback very clearly. When expectations are observations of the performance are not meeting those expectations. That is standard. That needs to continue to happen. But there also needs to be some understanding and curiosity about each individual's experience. So even just recently, I was having a conversation with a leader, was having a hard time holding somebody accountable, and their interpretation of it was they don't want to be managed. You know, they don't want me giving them feedback. They don't, you know, they don't want to be held accountable. And so we were talking about, well, do we understand how they want to be held accountable. Like it's your job to hold them accountable. But how do they want to be held accountable? You've got to understand that, yes, it's important that they meet expectations, but there is some flexibility around the way in which that happens. Is it happening through regular updates? Is it happening through meetings? Am I sending you am I sending you status updates? Are you checking in with me? Like all of these sorts of things that kind of change the flavor through which you're leading?

Brian Kelly:
Interesting. And I'd be interested to see what kind of techniques there are to extract, what their form of what their account, what accountability looks like to them, how would they react to, um, I had not thought about that. That's interesting. I'm thinking of my own team as you're talking. Thinking, man, that would be very valuable for me to employ and to know what they. I mean, I've got a great team and they're doing great. But as an entrepreneur, you're always looking to improve no matter where and how. Uh, never stop. That's one thing I love about it. I want to ask you this. This is like a weird question. Um, and I mean, as an entrepreneur, we have an endless amount of things to take care of. We are professional problem solvers. That's really what it comes down to. And you know, if you don't love solving problems, then this is the wrong place. I'm talking to other people. Of course not. You, Divya. And I mean, yes, some of them are a pain in the rear. Let's get that straight. Being an entrepreneur does not mean, you know, sunshine and rose petals. Like I was saying earlier, all the way for forever. It's actually quite the opposite. Uh, but the the fruit, the reward at each interim goal, it makes it all worth it. Um, and then some. And then you say, oh, let's do that again. It's like playing golf. I'll hit one good shot in the entire day. I'm like, well, I'll come back tomorrow. Then after a whole day of Holi of horrible, uh, play. It's funny. But anyway, with entrepreneurship, there's more at stake. You're helping people and find a responsibility in doing that. But, um, I lost my train of thought while I was going because I went off on that whole golf tangent, but, uh.

Divya Ramachandran:
We could just talk about golf. Yeah. Oh.

Brian Kelly:
Yeah. I would go into a funk in that area to my last time out. Wasn't a good one. It's been a while now, so, uh. But that's okay. We get back up on our horse. And. So have you ever gone through a time where things didn't go right and it felt like you failed a certain task, which I know the answer is going to be a resounding yes multiple times. But what do you what do you, Divya, do as a leader when you notice that? Ah, that one. What didn't go well? Um, do you go through a self examining time where you say, what could I have done differently? Do you look at, well, what could they have done differently? What does that process look like for you?

Divya Ramachandran:
Yeah, that's a great question. When I think about the word failure, um, and this is how I treat it myself, but also with my clients. Um, two things come up. One is that I'm a strong believer in purpose, that things happen with some purpose behind it, and that's usually some kind of a learning or an opportunity. And so in retrospect, a failure is almost always not a failure. Like there was something that came out of it. It's like, oh, that happened for a reason. I get it now, right? Um, the other thing I think about is growth. So anything I do, any action I take, any decision I make, I could probably do it better. Like, I think there's always a potential to do everything better. So under that definition, you're kind of failing every time you act right. There's always some potential to do something better. And so I think that that's just having a mindset around around our failure like that is important. It's just like, okay, I did this thing. I can still grow from it. I can still do well. So I can think about not just my failures, but also my successes that way. Um, but also that there's always some kind of a learning or a purpose behind anything that goes.

Brian Kelly:
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Um, that's where a lot of our learning does come from. And that was a fantastic response. Um, and that's the cool thing about this whole process of of the questions I'm asking you, you have passed with flying colors on every one of them. Not that there's a pass fail, but I want folks to listen and realize out there if you are even contemplating getting a leadership coach, Divya is hitting it all straight on perfectly. Uh, in every case so far. Uh, you know, there there are so many. I mean, you look very young to me. And to know what you know by now, in this stage in your life is, uh, pretty impressive. And to have experienced what you've experienced, that means you have a deep, um, awareness, internal knowledge that that this was a calling for you to dive into. It is a gift that you have to get to this stage that you are so quickly. And there was a great book that I read on this topic of Yeah, and I get this similar reaction about failure. I get this, I don't like that word. And that's good that that was another great passing grade, if you will. But there's this book by Willie Jolly and in it repeatedly he says over and over, and it's wonderful. Repetition is the key to mastery, as many have known. But he would say this over and over. He would say a setback is a setup for a comeback. Is that like, is that powerful? And it's so good. It's called the Willie Jolley Collection. And that's on Richard Peak. Library.com for those of you that want to go look and see it there. And I loved it. I listened to everything inaudible. And so it was his voice. I love it when the authors, the the one who speaks it and it was, you know, his energy and everything came off resoundingly well, but I'll never forget that phrase. A setback is a setup for a comeback that epitomizes this whole concept of this word failure, which really isn't failure. It's. But in a way it is. Just for a moment, though, that's the that's the key.

Brian Kelly:
And one of the biggest things we as entrepreneurs can do is not only fail, but fail fast and numerous times, because the more we do, the closer we get to not failing again and get to that level of success that we that we desire. I grew up and I wasn't, I call it an analytical person from Software Day and everything had to be perfect. I mean, everything had to be lined up. And if one thing fell out of place, I felt like it was a failure. And, uh, but I spent so much time trying not to fail that I never got anywhere until I learned to get that ego off of my shoulder and say, get out of here. Um, now it's time to fail. Uh, have you ever noticed that, uh, did that ever happen to you, being that you come from a a semi similar background of being in the, uh, engineering field where you have to be somewhat analytical. Did that was that something you overcame or you naturally already didn't have to deal with that?

Divya Ramachandran:
Neither. I still deal with it. Um, it's I mean, it's just a constant. It's it's like there's nothing. I don't think anyone can fully overcome it. Right. But it is. That voice is constantly on my shoulder. But I think that there are just tools, like, we just have to have awareness around that and recognize that that's there. Like when I'm seeing when I'm seeing that with my clients, because of course there's a third party, a neutral party you can always see when they're just holding themselves back. Um, you just have to have this conversation around like, what is what is the worst possible scenario here? And like, sometimes we haven't even articulated it. And once you say it, you're like, okay, that's never going to happen. Or actually, that's not so bad. Right. Like you just sort of realize it. But sometimes we just allow ourselves to get stuck in this narrative of like, I can't do that. I'd better not do that. That door is closed. Um, and sometimes you just, like, open it, open it, see what happens. Uh, and so constantly, I'm always in this place of like, oh, I better not take that risk. I can't do this. Or should I try that and then have to I have to work through it. I have to work through it on my own and figure out a way to get through it.

Brian Kelly:
And not only on your own. I've noticed you already said that you had a coach, you've had coaches, and that is also key to growth. I've had coaches, I've had mentors. That's the only time I do grow at the greatest levels. Uh, and you know, when they say about being aware, that was a beautiful way of putting it, because that's the first step is be aware that your ego is is the master at that moment. And once you're aware, you can then simply quickly flick that master off your shoulder and you are the master, you know, and let them go flying. Get them out of here and you know they do reappear. They climb back up somehow, some way, all the time, but always being aware of it. That is the key. Uh, if one is in denial that it's happening, that's not going to work too well. Um. My goodness, this is phenomenal. I'm looking at all over my notes. Oh, just so everybody knows, I was preaching. Everybody write notes. I'm doing it myself. So I don't ever tell people to do or recommend people to do that, which I don't commit to doing myself. So that's another that's that's actually what would you think about that as a rule of leadership, should you as a leader be willing to get your, your hands dirty? Uh, on occasion with and alongside your people that you're leading. Especially, let's say you have an urgent matter that has occurred. Something happened. Um, and now it's all hands on deck, and we need everybody's input. What are your thoughts on having a leader joining side by side with the employees and writing that code or or doing whatever their employees are doing? Is that something you, uh, that you are, uh, for or against? Um.

Divya Ramachandran:
I love these questions. And my answers are always my answer is always medium, which is maybe, maybe somewhat dissatisfying. No, it's not, but I think there are. I think there are absolutely situations where one needs to do that. I think the, the if we think about holding. So as a leader, your job, your main job is to hold other people accountable to certain results. Right? And you have and somebody is holding you accountable as well. Nobody's nobody's free from this. Um, but when you're doing that, you kind of if if there's a problem, if it's not working and they're not being accountable, there's something something's going on there and you kind of need to diagnose what it is. And if it's a skill or a competence gap, that's a great place to just get your hands dirty and just say, let me help you. Let me teach you how to do this. And so I think that's like done consciously. That's a really great way for a leader to support done from a place of, oh, they're struggling. I don't want to give them feedback. Let me just go in there and do it for them. Let me fix it for them. Totally not right, but done consciously. I think there's absolutely ways to reasons to do it now.

Brian Kelly:
Interesting. The very fact that you say that means you've dealt with people that have reacted that way. And that's not even my. Wow, interesting. It's, uh, getting better and better and better. Yeah. Uh, I think this is a perfect time to now segue and talk about your particular coaching business, what it is you do. I want to pull up your website and basically give you the opportunity to let everyone know what it is you do? Uh, to whatever level of detail you're comfortable with. Also, what is your target market? What is your clientele? Is it only corporations that have the inherently have leaders? Um, is it is it also small businesses that are at a point where they have a team and there is leadership involved? And what does that look like? And then the final part of the question would be, if you have a success story or two you'd like to share with everybody, I know we would love to hear that. Would that be cool if I brought up your website and just let you take it away?

Divya Ramachandran:
Yeah, sure. Let's do it.

Brian Kelly:
Here we go. Go ahead.

Divya Ramachandran:
All right, so, um, I will yeah. Just kind of tell you a little bit about so my, my work that I do with individuals and with teams is essentially to help you do hard things. And by hard things, what do I mean? I mean that you're trying to make sense of really complex or ambiguous problems, or you are trying to, um, teach, get other people to do hard things. Right. So you're trying to influence your team, influence your manager, etc.. And so there's a lot of related to influence. So the goal really in it that I'm trying to help you and your team do, um, ah, do the hard things, get stuff done, have hard conversations and make things, um, and move things forward. So we want to create forward progress. I work with individuals. I work with teams. I work with groups of individuals. Um, so there's a couple of different ways in which I engage. Uh, and primarily what we do is we work one on one to understand what is the biggest challenge that is top of mind for you right now, and what is it that we can do about it? And so my goal is to hold space for you to find the answers and the insights yourself. Um, when I'm working with an individual, the the what you're bringing to the conversation is what we follow. So we talked a little bit about energy awareness. I am following your energy to help you get to a place where you feel unlocked and ready to go and get that hard thing done. You asked me a couple of other questions. Um.

Brian Kelly:
Success story if you have success story.

Divya Ramachandran:
That's right. So let me give you an example of what that looks like. I'm going to give you an example of something that happened quite recently, actually, um, with a client who has been struggling. Uh, actually, before that, I remember you asked me about who I work with. Um, and so let me let me tell you quickly about that as well. So I don't only work with corporate, I work with individuals across the board. My special specialization is within tech and tech startups because that is my background. And so I tend to work with smaller teams and individuals and smaller teams. So entrepreneurs with a smaller team just getting started, just trying to like figure out how do I work this whole management thing out? I'm I'm trying to not do all the work myself. I need other people to do it. But how do I make that happen? So these are the kinds of things that, um, I'm I help with quite a bit now as far as success stories. So I like to really I like to kind of highlight a specific individual in their inner transformation. That happened. Um, and it was just demonstrated quite recently. So I want to share that, which is um, they were really trying to influence a large team of their, uh, a large team of their peers as well as their managers. And this was in a larger group, a larger organization. They've been struggling with this for for months. It almost felt like a year plus where they're not able to kind of get everyone on board with the vision that they had in mind. Right. And so what we uncovered through several sessions was that they were really waiting for permission. They were waiting for somebody to say, this is your job. You go do it. I'll make sure everybody follows you. And it never works that way. Right? Because you can't just sort of put a stake in the ground and say, okay, this is their job. They're going to do it and everyone's going to listen. It's not going to happen because we're talking about people and everyone has opinions and everyone has different, um, ideas of how things need to go about.

Divya Ramachandran:
And so what we really have worked on over the last several sessions is how are you going to start doing things? How are you going to get start driving? How are you going to be in charge? Right. And so the work that has to be done for that is kind of first of all, getting clarity on, okay, what is it? What is the plan that I have in mind? And if I had if I had full control, if I had full permission, what is that vision that I'd want to execute on? So get that clarity and then start having conversations where you're in control and you're saying, this is the plan that I have in mind. I'm open to your suggestions, but this is what I have in mind. And so kind of leading with what you've already decided and then waiting for others to kind of opt out if they want. But but you're not waiting for them to kind of give you the permission before you go and do the work. So these are the kinds of inner transformations that I've been working on with with leaders. And I have a couple of other examples, but I'll just stick with that one for now.

Brian Kelly:
I love it, and that's fantastic to hear actual bona fide stories. And it gives people an idea that, you know, and I'm just imagining how that transformation of that individual through your work, how that is going to immediately and positively impact that whole organization. And, you know, they wouldn't have come to you unless they knew they needed help or unless someone else told them they needed your help. But in either case, it was a good job. Whoever made that decision to at least go that far. And that's what I wanted to put up upon everyone watching and listening right now. And that is, if you have any doubt or inkling that there's a little voice telling you, I wonder if I'm leading in the best way possible. That probably means that you need to get some help, some coaching and assistance. So consider reaching out to Divya and her website. For those of you listening, a lot of you can see it on the screen is, uh, Divya lalitha.com and that happens to be Lalita is her middle name, as you'll see on our website when you go there. So it's d I v y a l a l I t h a com Divya Lalitha com. So head on over to that website. She has ways of getting in touch with her, email her, reach out to her. I'm. I can only imagine you're on LinkedIn where business owners, uh, hang out. So look her up. She has a very unique name. There's no way you cannot not find her. So no excuses there. And go to Divya Lalitha com to, um, strike up a conversation, see if she's a fit. And you can tell just by. I mean, look at her. She's very open and warm. Uh, she's not going to take you down to the basement and strap you in a chair and give you water drip, um, torture. Uh, no. No, she's going to just ask. How is it going? What are your needs? Let's see if we're a fit. And if not, that's okay. And, uh, that's the way a business is usually the most successful. Without the pressure and the hype and all that good stuff. I can tell just by talking to you, Divya, that's how you operate. And you're going to know pretty quickly I know this, whether they need your help or not. And to what degree? Uh, just by based on your opening questions and, uh, your expertise, which is very obvious to me that it's very there. Do you want me it would it be okay to put up your email address for everybody to see?

Divya Ramachandran:
Absolutely.

Brian Kelly:
So, um, that's up there. So contact her this way or go to our website. Either one. This is the fastest. Would you, would you prefer this as kind of a primary way to get a hold of you?

Divya Ramachandran:
Yeah. Emails great emails great LinkedIn is great. Happy to hear from you.

Brian Kelly:
All right. Our email address is coach at Divya lalitha.com coach at Divya Lalitha com. That is much easier to say than Ramachandran. Ramachandran? Oh, I almost had a perfect record. I kind of goofed on the.

Divya Ramachandran:
You've nailed it each time.

Brian Kelly:
I appreciate you're so kind. But yes, definitely reach out to her. Um. And leadership. So this this is the cornerstone. And look, it is very vitally important. Like I said in the opening of the show, if you if you get to mastering this one skill set right away, the first one and put all your, uh, most of your energy into it, you can't put all of it into any one thing as an entrepreneur, uh, in the beginning especially, but really focus on leadership, then you'll have the ability to really branch out much faster than if you don't, because now you can. Now you can also learn skill sets like picking off and learning. Oh, that person's really good at marketing. They think they're good at sales, but actually they're better at marketing. And then it could be the other one that's, you know, they're they're really good in systematizing things. They think. But you know what? They're better at sales. That's completely different. And so you get these skill sets of of really being in tune, especially working with someone like Divya who will take you on the path of what it takes to have those intangible qualities that will get you to the next stage in your company's life. So highly recommend that. And Divya and I had never met before this show. In fact, what 30 minutes before we went live is the first time we met. And so I'm not here just to pitch Divya. I pitch people when I see something that's worthy of everyone's, um, time, effort and and putting forth the commitment to improve themselves in their business. And Divya has those qualities in my eyes. So definitely do that. Uh, reach out to her again. Divya Lalitha. Com. Did I say it enough? Divya, do we do it again? Divya Lalitha com. And. Don't forget mind body business book com. Okay, that's enough of that. So had to get that in there. Um, ten years. I'm going to put it in there. All right. You do that. Yeah. And, uh, so in this, in this huge journey that you've been through so far, it doesn't end.

Brian Kelly:
It's an ongoing journey. That's another thing I love about it. I remember what I was going to ask you if if you get to a point, uh, Divya, you know, being an entrepreneur, there's always another goal, another level, something else to strive to. It's like our food. It keeps us alive. Okay, I reached that one goal I. What's next? Let's go, let's go go go go go. What if one day this actually was possible? What if you reached that one final goal and there were no more? You could no longer grow anymore. You could no longer learn something new. You could no longer excel more than you are now. And you just hit that ceiling. If that imaginary ceiling were to exist, how would you feel? What would that what would the future look like to you? What would that bring up in your mind?

Divya Ramachandran:
That's an interesting question. It's so hard to picture that ceiling. It is way up there. Um, um, okay. I'm going to tell you my gut response, which was I would just keep doing the work because I like it.

Brian Kelly:
I love it, I mean.

Divya Ramachandran:
I just, I, I don't know if I'd feel that way in that moment, but, um, there's a striving aspect of this work, but there's also just a I like it the way it is aspect of this work. Uh, and so I think I want to maintain that even as I'm continuing to strive and grow and increase my impact and all of that, I still want to. I'm not setting up my life, and my goal is not to live that life. Once I get there, my goal is to just be living a good life alongside the development of the business.

Brian Kelly:
Yeah. Yeah, it's a tough question and it's very hypothetical. Um. It's similar. I've had time to think about it. Obviously. I've asked it several times. I know that at the beginning I'd be going, okay, settle in. This is kind of cool, but then it wouldn't be very long after that. I'd be really sad because I can't grow. I can't go to another step. I mean, the challenges are done. You've reached the top. I mean, the challenges are going to be repetitive and they're going to be the same ones. You can't grow anymore. It's like, yeah, it's kind of a mind bender question. And um, uh, it's a different answer by everybody so far. That was the one I couldn't recall earlier. Uh, it finally came back to me. Oh, looking at that time, conscious of time. So everyone watching us live, I don't know if you saw it. It kind of snuck in there, but, um, I usually announce this in the beginning. Uh, but I'll put it up on the screen for those of you watching live, only for those of you watching live. And if you're not, you can go to the Mindbody business. Show.com. Yep, it's a long URL, the mind body business Show.com click on any of those multitude of buttons that say how and where to watch, and all you need to do is register. Because what we'll do is send you a notification about the moment we're going live. We won't kill you with a bunch of emails and stuff. We just want to let you know, hey, we're live, then you can join us live. You don't. You won't ever have to be a remember it. You won't have to even put it on your calendar. And then you can join us here live. And you can do what it shows on the bottom. And that is if you stay with us to the end of the live show, you can enter to win a five night stay at a five star luxury resort, compliments of our sponsor, Eureka Peak LLC. You see them on the upper right hand corner. If you're watching us live, I do recommend that you come watch us live.

Brian Kelly:
We did take a bit of a hiatus. This has been four weeks. We have not had a show. Divya, that's never happened. Uh, ever before. A lot of stuff going on. But we're back. We're back and we're going to do two shows a week for, I think, 2 or 3 weeks now. And then we'll go back to our usual structure. But you will also be privy to a nice gift that Divya has for you as well. And given that we are close to the end of the show, it's going to come really soon. And here, Divya, the thing I love to do on this show. And I do this with every single guest. Well, not in the very beginning, but what I used. I used to ask this one question on occasion. I would ask this one question way back when, the four plus years ago, and I started taking really deep note of the answers, thinking, whew, that was a profound answer. And then I do it again. It's like, hey, that was pretty special. And so I decided to make it the closing question of every show that we do. And because it's that profound and, um, we're going to get to that as soon as we give away some wonderful gifts. So ladies first, I'll put up on the screen, uh, where people can go get this amazing gift. And there it is. If you want to give a quick description, I'll pull it up on the website so people can get a pictorial of it. Uh, and go ahead and call out the URL itself so people can write that down and go to it posthaste.

Divya Ramachandran:
Great. So this is a special guide, um, that you are going to be able to download. Uh, the idea here is about, you know, what I think we've got. Oh, well, um, two different guides. There's a, there's one that you're showing here. Um, so I have two different guides, but you. Yeah. No worries. Um.

Brian Kelly:
I see what you're saying. Say hard thing to do.

Divya Ramachandran:
All right. Yeah, let's do the say hard things one. Okay. So. A lot of influence and a lot of having to do, uh, leadership is all about influence, and it's getting other people to do things right. And it's. But doing that in such a way where it feels easy and it feels like you don't have to, uh, have these really hard conversations with other people. And so this guide gives you a four step process. It's based on a concept of emotional clarity, which helps us kind of think through once we've figured out kind of how we feel about a situation, what are the steps we take before we get to having a conversation that feels easy? So a lot of the time we're dreading a conversation or really frustrated with somebody and not knowing how to say it. This is not just at work. This is everywhere in life. Right? And so this whole, uh, this, um, framework that's, uh, I share in this guide really steps you through what are ways to really think systematically about what it is that you need to say. This could be setting boundaries. It could be setting expectations. It's communicating a hard decision. It could also be selling, selling a great idea where you're not so sure and you've got a skeptical customer. So all of these things, um, the the purpose of this guide is to help walk you through that.

Brian Kelly:
All right. And I'm going to make a quick visual modification to make it a little easier for people who are watching to get an idea. So this is the web address you want to go to. It's instead of w-w-w it's content dot. Divya Lalitha com. So you all know that one already. Forward slash say hard things all together, all lowercase say hard things so it's content dot Divya lalita.com/say hard things. And to show you how easy it is, uh, I'm just going to put in my information here. Oops. If I can type I shouldn't have put so much pressure on myself. Huh? And drum roll. And we're going to get the guide. It's going to be emailed to us, so be sure to put in your valid email address. Another very wise thing that Divya did. She didn't just give it to you. She's making sure you put in your correct email address. That's your reward. Very, very smart, I love it, and you're an amazing young woman. And we are going to get to that final question here in just a moment. Thank you for offering this gift. I can't wait till I see mine come in the email. I'm not going to do that right now because we have a show to conclude very soon. So, um, one of the things, uh, the other gift that we want to give away right before, and you don't want to go anywhere after, uh, a reveal how you can enter to win. Uh, you definitely want to stick around for the final hard hitting, right between the eyes. Question. Okay, it's not like that, Divya. Don't worry. It's it's not that bad. She's probably gone. Oh my God. So real quick, how do you win a five night stay at a five star luxury resort? You just go to a website, write this down. Don't go there now because you want to focus on what Divya is about to say with her response. So you want to go to what you see on the screen? Repeat. I'm forward slash vacation. Repeat that stands for Reach Your Peak. Just to give it context.

Brian Kelly:
Dot I'm forward slash vacation and it is a random draw. And um, we will be monitoring the entries after the show is over, so wait till the show is over. We'll say goodbye. We'll say good night, we'll sign off and then go for it. Then start entering to win. Can't wait to see who it is. I hope it's you, whoever you are watching right now. Hahahahaha! All right, back to Divya and the wonderful, amazing final question. Oh, this is a good one, Divya. So a couple of things of note about this amazing question. Number one is that there is no such thing as a wrong answer. It doesn't exist. This is not a quiz. It's not a test, it's a question. And actually, the number two thing is, it's the exact opposite is the case. Whatever your answer is, Divya, it is by definition the correct answer because it's yours. It's going to be unique to you. It's amazing. And and and I'll also say let's say it takes you a microsecond and I know you know what that means, being from the tech background or it takes you a multitude of seconds. Even in that case, it's 100% perfect because it's your answer that you came up with. So there's no pressure at all now that you're going crazy. What the heck is this? Answer this question going to be, um, the build up is pretty cool, huh? So yeah. And, um, the other thing is, um, I do plan on making a compilation book from the responses of my past guests. So the only reason I let you know that is you may want to have a little bit more than a two sentence response if you want to be included in that book. I've had that happen. I'm like, oh, I should have told them I forgot. But, uh, one page would look kind of blank with that. Um, but anyway, again, even if it is 1 or 2 sentences, that's fine. It's your answer. It's perfect. With all that wonderful build up. Are you ready?

Divya Ramachandran:
I am.

Brian Kelly:
Okay. I had to make sure. All right. All right, here we go. Divya. Ramachandran. How do you define success? Hmm. Mhm.

Divya Ramachandran:
That's a great question. So success. I think success is really about how you. Spend your how much your actions align with values your values. So you know what matters the most to you. And if you can spend your day or your create your business or interact with individuals in such a way where you are always making decisions that align kind of to your core with what matters the most to you, then that's success.

Brian Kelly:
Um, I gotta tell you a secret. Well, it's not really a secret as I bring you back here. Wrong one. I'm pressing the wrong button here, and that is. You won't believe this. You may not believe this. I've been doing this show for a little over five years. I'd say around four of those years I've asked that question to close out the show. Do you know that no two people to date have answered it the same way yet? Wow. Pretty amazing, I would say. And yours was definitely unique. Uh, align actions with values. No one else has ever said that. And you said a line. More than once, I noticed you see this very astute, uh, listening skills here. So, uh, and that's also what do you say about that real quick leadership. How important is it to have good listening skills as well as verbal communication skills? Is it as important to listen intently, or do you think.

Divya Ramachandran:
Uh, I would say it's like 70 over 30, way more important to listen, maybe I should have said 9010, but no, you need to be able to communicate clearly. But listening is absolutely the most important.

Brian Kelly:
It's like grandma always told us, you know, you have one mouth and two ears.

Divya Ramachandran:
That's right.

Brian Kelly:
I love it. Uh, Divya, you've been an absolute rock star. I appreciate you for coming on this show. And, uh, this is the unfortunate time. All good things. They don't have to come to an end. But today they will. Because we need to honor not only your time. Divya, you came on with a commitment for an hour and a half. A half hour pre-show and the full hour show, plus everyone watching and listening. We appreciate you all for coming on and watching and listening to the amazing Divya Ramachandran. She is amazing and she can be there to help you. Don't forget, go to her website. It's on the screen right now. It's called Divya Lalitha Com. Set up that call. Uh, get to know her. You can tell she's really easy going coach at Divya Lalitha com. Something tells me, though, she will bring out the toughness when it's time to give you that accountability that you need to grow as a leader. And that's because she knows what it takes to be a leader. And she said it many times on the show. It's all about holding your people accountable. Do you think she might do that with you? You'll want her to, because what will happen as a result? You'll get the results you're coming for. So that's all it is. So get out there, contact Divya, book a call with her, get to know her, and then let's see where it goes from there. Divya, do you have anything? Last parting words of advice for any new entrepreneurs out there?

Divya Ramachandran:
Oh, um, I just wanted to say thank you all for being here and for watching. And thank you so much, Brian, for allowing, inviting me to be a be a part of this show. So I really appreciate it. Thanks. I'll go have keep having fun.

Brian Kelly:
Yes, yes. Thank you. You reminded me my parting comment is to everyone. Please go out there and do just two things and that is including you, Divya. And that is go out and continue to do everything in your power to crush it in your business. Why? That means you will be scaling and serving more people, helping more people. And number two, this one's the most important one to a person. Please everyone be blessed. That is it for us here on the mind body business show. On behalf of the amazing Divya, I am Brian Kelly, uh, host of this mind body business show. Until next time, we will see you again and can't wait for all of you to come back and watch and listen again. So that's it for us. So long. Good night and we'll see you again next time. Thank you for tuning in to the Mind Body Business Show podcast at WWW. Dot. The mind body business Show.com. My name is Brian Kelly.

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