Special Guest Expert - Paul Moore
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Special Guest Expert - Paul Moore: this mp4 video file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
Announcer:
Welcome to The MIND BODY BUSINESS Show. The three keys to your success is just moments away. Here's your host, Brian Kelly.
Brian Kelly:
Hello, everyone, and welcome, welcome, welcome to The MIND BODY BUSINESS Show. We have a phenomenal show lined up for you tonight, not because of me, but because of our special guest expert. This man has seen and done nearly everything when it comes to the entrepreneur world. And I cannot wait to tap into his big, beautiful brain. And for him to give the value to you that you came on to watch that you so richly deserve. Thanks for tuning in for joining us tonight. And by the way, continue all the time, continue to comment, ask questions. We love interaction and feedback. Let's get to it, shall we? The MIND BODY BUSINESS Show. What is that all about? Real briefly, in my fifty five years on this planet, I started studying only those people that I deemed successful that looked successful to me, that seemed successful and that were in other people's eyes. And I started studying them and finding out what is it that made them successful. And it came down to three things that were three primary areas. And I now call them the three pillars of success. And you might have guessed it what those are by now. And that is the mind, body and business. So mind being mindset, that is each and every person that I study that is successful. These are people I've met at seminars that I knew personally or that I read in books and followed online. They each had mastered their own mindset and they have achieved a way of creating a unstoppable and very flexible mindset that is one that you need to have to succeed as an entrepreneur, because let's face it, being an entrepreneur, he's not that easy. It is not that easy. You need a thick skin, so to speak, to succeed. And then we'll move into a body. Speaking of skin, that's not just about your physical body. It is. It does include that. It's about working out exercising on a regular basis and putting good nutrition into your body. And I like to say the mind and body are a team. And more importantly, they are your team. And if any member of any team is not operating at what I like to call a peak level of performance, then the team as a whole suffers, doesn't it? And so the mind and body so take care of both and really look into mastering both those. And then there's business. Business is a multifaceted arena. It includes things like sales, marketing, team building, scaling, systematizing. It goes on and on. And every one of these people that I studied had mastered these areas of success. Now, here's the good news is they personally did not master every single area that there is in business. Every skill set, there are so many. The thing they did, they got smart and they delegated to those who had the skill sets so that they wouldn't have to go and learn every single one of them. And so there's good news. You can leverage your talents with other people to help you to build a successful business. And another wonderful trait, a very wonderful trait that most of these incredible, successful individuals had was they all were very voracious readers of books. And to that end, I like the Segway real quick into a segment I affectionately call bookmarks.
Announcer:
Bookmarks for to read, bookmarks. Ready steady read bookmarks brought to you by ReachYourPeakLibrary.com.
Brian Kelly:
Yes. There you see it on the side of the screen here to me, ReachYourPeakLibrary.com. And real quickly, for those of you watching and listening, everyone that's paying attention here is to do just that is pay attention to the show here and just take notes. Take out an old fashioned piece of paper and a pen and jot down notes, because between our guest expert, who is an amazing gentleman, Paul Moore and myself, we'll be giving you a lot of resources that you'll be able to tap into. Write those down instead of. That, you know, instead of going off and checking them out online while you're watching the show and listening to in the background, try to avoid that temptation and stay with us on the show, because I like to say the magic happens in the room. And I'd really hate it for you to miss something that could have been the most important tidbit of value that Paul gives you tonight that could literally change your life forever. So stay on the show. Stay with us. Engage comment like love and let's have a good time. ReachYourPeakLibrary.com. What is that? Real quickly, real briefly, that is a website I put together, and I kid you not with you in mind, with the entrepreneur or with a business person that's trying to achieve greater success than they are now. I'm going to reveal something here. I didn't used to read voraciously until about 10 years ago. I have not been a voracious reader for very long. And once I started, though, I will say it did change my life in profound ways. And I began reading everything I can get my hands on, too. I love to listen to books on Audible. I found that was my mode of ingesting information that was better than reading with my eyeballs that would get tired if I had a book and that's why I didn't read a lot because it made me tired. And I found this other means to do it, to ingest information. And so if you're reading books and you want a good list of personally vetted books that I personally bet another list to go to. I'm always looking for new readers myself at least the odds are you won't be wasting your time because this has been vetted by at least one other successful person. And you can have a better probability of this really having a positive impact on you. Every book I've ever read is not in your by the way. That is why I made that comment. And so speaking of success, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, I think it's time we bring on our special guests expert. Let's get right to it.
Announcer:
It's time for the guest expert, spotlight, savvy, skillful, professional, adept, trained, big-league qualified.
Brian Kelly:
And there he is, ladies and gentlemen. The one the only Mr. Paul Moore. Hey, Paul. How are you doing this evening?
Paul Moore:
I'm doing great. Thanks, Brian. How are you?
Brian Kelly:
Oh, I could not be better, I'm so excited for this show. I'm looking into your bio. I've done some research about you. You're an amazing man who has accomplished much, learned a ton. And I know that our viewers are just going to love listening to what you have to say going forward, I cannot wait. Before we jump in, though, real quick, if I may, I wanted to remind everyone who's watching live for those you that stay online to the very end, you will have the opportunity to win a fortnight's stay at a five star luxury resort in Mexico, compliments of powertexting.com. You see their name on the screen. They have put this thing together where we can give away and have been giving away a vacation every single show, once a week, every single show. And it is not one of those things where they they lure you into a timeshare meeting, you know, the type. It's nothing like that. And I know that for a fact, because the founder of Powertexting.com himself has utilized this very resource three times, three times. And he said every single time that the experience was phenomenal. All right. Let's get to it. Let's bring on this amazing gentleman after graduating with an engineering degree and then an MBA from Ohio State, Paul started on a management development track at Ford Motor Company in Detroit. After five years, he departed to start a staffing company with a partner. They sold it to a publicly traded firm for 2.9 million dollars just five years later. Along the way, Paul was finalists for Ernst and Young's Michigan entrepreneur of the year two year straight. Paul later entered the real estate sector, where he has completed eighty five real estate investments and exits. Appeared on an HGTV special, I love them, by the way. Rehab and managed dozens of rental properties, developed a waterfront subdivision and started two successful online real estate marketing firms. I'm not done yet. Three successful developments, including assisting with development of a Hyatt hotel and a multifamily housing project that led him into the multifamily investment arena. Paul cohosts a wealth building podcast called 'How to Lose Money' and is a frequent contributor to 'Bigger Pockets'. Paul is the author of The Perfect Investment Create Enduring Wealth from the Historic Shift to Multifamily Housing and has a forthcoming book on self-storage investing, which we are going to go into tonight. I hope Paul is also the managing director of two commercial real estate funds at Wellings Capital. I'm exhausted. That's amazing. And you're amazing.
Paul Moore:
I'm exhausted.
Brian Kelly:
Welcome to the show, my friend, officially.
Paul Moore:
Thanks, Brian. That's great.
Brian Kelly:
Hoo wee. That is a powerful, powerful bio brother. I love that. When I first read that and we're talking months ago when we were working out getting you on the show, I was like, wow, this is going to be an all star player on the show. I couldn't wait for this evening. I'm so glad it's here. Oh, my. And so the bio. You know, it's I love those because everyone gets to get a sense of you and what you've achieved and accomplished your experience over the past number of years. And what I like to do is then kind of switch gears and then dig a little deeper. And this is nothing horrible or bad. It's really good. I like to dig into the mind because as I open the show, the mind is one of the three pillars of success. Hence the name being part of the name of the show. And what I wanted to find out from you, Paul, specifically, you know, being an entrepreneur is difficult, as tough enough as it is. And you have to have a rock solid, positive mindset. We're human. We have those times. But you have to find a way to rise above it all continually, consistently. And so for you, Paul, when it comes to maintaining something like that, that positive, productive and successful mindset, what do you do on a regular basis to sustain that?
Paul Moore:
Yeah. One thing I've been doing for about thirty four years now is doing like a time of morning meditation. I get up and no matter how busy I am. I mean, except in those rare exceptions, you know, no matter how busy, no matter how much I have on my plate, I try to get, you know, about forty five minutes to an hour to, you know, just sit meditate, pray. I try to write journals. I actually am working on a devotional book that I'm writing. And so that's been part of that journey, just writing out those devotionals, which have been really fun for me personally. And, you know, I do some positive affirmations, things like that. You know, just kind of restate my goals not only for the day, but my mindset. Our big picture goals for the year and for longer than a year. So I try to do that every morning and I find if I don't do it two or three days in a row, I can feel it.
Brian Kelly:
That is amazing because what happens with many of our past guest. It's very similar. And what happens, I've noticed is everyone who's achieved a level of success similar to yours or you or, you know, you're way up there is they all seem to have a routine. A disciplined routine that they follow on a regular basis. And it's interesting you said that if you don't follow for several days, you feel it. And I can so relate to that because and the opposite is true when you get back into it. You start noticing the ramping up of everything. You become more successful. Everything just falls in alignment. Much better, much easier. And I really resonate with that. So for those of you watching and listening, take notes on that is routine and discipline in following that routine. And it's a good kind of discipline. Not that got, you know, the bad kind of discipline that some of us in the past have gone to on previous shows. It's it's interesting how people react to this. The words we use also talked a little bit about the importance of reading when it comes to becoming successful, because think about it. What what less costly way is there to learn from someone who has achieved a great level of success? I mean, you buy a book and you read it. You have it forever. You can go back to it time and again. And many of the books I put on reach your peak library. They are just invaluable, invaluable to me. And I've got bookmarks throughout them. So for you, Paul, I'd love to hear what business related book if you could just pick just one. It could be recent. It could be in the past. What business related book has inspired you the most so far?
Paul Moore:
Yeah. You know, Brian, for years I considered myself a serial entrepreneur. I was even thinking about putting that on my business card at one time. I've got a stack of business cards from different businesses that some succeeded, many failed. And I actually regret that, you know, I mean, I regret being a shiny object chaser. Some of the most successful people in the world figured out one thing they wanted to do when they were really young. And they stuck to that one thing and they said no to a thousand, maybe ten thousand distractions. A friend of mine and business partner just ran for governor of Colorado last time around. And he said he ran a rub shoulders with billionaires. And he said, you know, they're not that much smarter. They don't have that much. They don't have a better education. But what they do have is most of them pick something in their late teens or early twenties, and they stuck with that one thing. And that's the name of the book. I'm sure you have it in your library. It's Gary Keller and Jay Papasan. It's called The One Thing. And it teaches us to focus on one thing for this hour, this day, this week, but also for the long term, you know, over the next five, 10, 20, 50 years.And so that book, if I would have had that and applied it in my early 20s, I think I would have been probably far more successful, especially if I would have discovered what I'm doing now magically in my 20s. But at any rate, that's the book I'd recommend for sure.
Brian Kelly:
Fantastic. Thank you so much for that. That is amazing. I wrote it down. I'm getting that. I will have that in my library before I turn in for the evening. I kid you not. That is how I act. I do not have that in my library currently. So thank you for that book resource. And so it's the one thing. And what were the authors again?
Paul Moore:
It's Gary Keller, who's the founder of Keller Williams. And Jay Papasan his coauthor on a number of books.
Brian Kelly:
Awesome. Thank you so much. So look for those of you watching, listening. I'm taking notes, so I think it'd be a good idea if you did the same. This is an amazing, amazing show because not because of me or what we've done here. It's because of people like Paul who come on to the show and bring incredible value. It's just amazing. I get the blessing of talking with and interacting with each of you. And Paul, you're just you're already amazing and bringing the value. And I'm so appreciative because. People are going to be blessed. Those are not watching live. They get to listen to this or watch it afterward. Are just going to be glad they did. That's what I will say with that. And so you've been all over the place with your entrepreneurialism. You know, serial entrepreneur or self-professed, what actually ignited the spark in you to go down where you are going now. What to start the latest business venture you're working on now?
Paul Moore:
Yeah, I would say there's a couple things. The first one was I discovered something about four years ago that most people know about now, but a lot of people didn't historically. And that is the great evil that is happening in the world and in America right now. It's called human trafficking. Brian, do you know that if you took not the average the record profits of Apple, General Motors, Nike and Starbucks combined that together doubled that number? Brian, the record profits of all four doubled. That's the approximate annual revenues generated by human trafficking every year. Wow. Incredible. It's happening under our noses. And you know what? I'd like to believe that if I was alive in the mid eighteen hundreds, I'd be an abolitionist fighting against slavery. And I'd like to believe if I was an adult in the 1950s and 60s, I would have been fighting for civil rights. Well, this is a civil right. It is slavery. And it's happening right under right under our noses. So I am trying to dedicate myself to getting that message out and to try to fund it. You know, I'm trying to fund like over my lifetime through my efforts and people I can corral together with me a billion dollars to fight human trafficking and rescue its victims. And so that's my big why. And that's one of the reasons I keep going. Now, vocationally, I also I discovered something called the magic and the power of commercial real estate. You know, the Forbes 400 largest, the wealthiest people in the world, almost all invest in commercial real estate. And I did not know why that was true. But after I discovered the power of it, I realized why. You know, if you have a residential home and your Chip and Joanna Gaines Jr. from I guess they're on HGTV, I think they are. And you were able to flip that house and let's say you could take a $300000 house and you could do every imaginable upgrade to it and you spend a half a million. You got it up to eight hundred thousand dollars. You probably wouldn't get eight hundred thousand dollars out of it if you were in a neighborhood of three hundred fifty thousand dollar homes. We all know that because these homes are valued or, you know, the value is based on comps or comparable properties, the value formula in commercial real estate is entirely different, Brian, there's a formula and it's value equals the income divided by the rate of return, which is similar to a PE ratio in stocks. Another way of saying is it's the value equals the net operating income, not including the debt or the debt service, the net operating income divided by the capitalization rate or the cap rate, which is the rate of return. So if you can increase the numerator of that equation or if you can somehow compress or lower the denominator, you can dramatically impact the value of that asset. Now, when you add safe leverage to it, when you add some debt, you can increase or accelerate the growth in the the equity even more. And so that is the power of commercial real estate. And I wanted to see that become accessible to the average investor. You know, for years people thought this is only the playground of the really wealthy, the institutional investors, the life insurance companies, pension plan, pension funds, rates, etc.. But now, because of the change in some of the tax laws, especially from 2012, that is accessible to everybody. So our company, Wellings Capital, provides an onramp or a front door, if you will, for people who want to get involved in commercial real estate, but they're not sure who to trust or where to start. We make it accessible for them to get into investments like this. We have a fund right now. We have 39 assets in one of our funds. So somebody can invest, for example, 50 thousand dollars and that be spread across these thirty nine commercial assets. Now, these are mom and pop facilities, self-storage mobile home parks, some multi-family that have a lot of upside because they weren't upgraded, they weren't maximized, the NOI - The net operating income was not driven to its optimal point by the previous mom and pop owner. They were probably a little older and wanted to get out, retire and there's easy things that can be done to significantly impact that value. And so I'm very, very excited to be part of this. If I would have known in my twenties, you know, about commercial real estate, I would never have done anything else.
Brian Kelly:
Yeah, you know, it's interesting that you bring all this up. It seems somewhat parallel to me as far as real estate, it's one of those things that's never really been much on my radar until a friend of mine who is in real estate and has made a fortune in it started developing courses to make it open and available to people like me as well. And so it's got me very intrigued listening to you that, you know, you make this basically Wellings Capital, the front door. I love how you describe that to people to have a way to enter into this market and understand and and be able to find someone they can trust and utilize your services to help in getting them into the real estate market. The commercial real estate market and also successfully investing there. So I'm really interested in that. And so along those lines. So to get those people to your front door is always this one of the most curious questions I have for all of my guests. I love to find out what different business owners are doing to get those people to your front door, so to speak, whether it's virtual or or physically. What is it for you and your company? Paul, how do you go about marketing your business? I truly and I guess let's just say marketing is so multifaceted, let's dial it down. What has been your most successful form of marketing thus far?
Paul Moore:
Well, first, let me tell you my philosophy on this. So about three and a half years ago, I had been doing real estate investments since 2000. I had some friends and family who had invested with me since about 2004. And we had that small group of investors. They had always made money. At least they never lost money on any deals. And so I was really excited to have them come along. But that was only like four people and I needed hundreds of people to invest with us to make our business successful. So the first thing I did as I started chasing the silver bullet, I started thinking, well, I've got this friend in China who works among the uber wealthy in Shanghai. I'm sure he would like to help them invest in the US. And so for about a year, I was counting on this friend to bring us these uber wealthy investors. And when we had a couple of deals and I called them first time, it was Chinese New Year. Sorry, I need six weeks to get back to you the second time, Well, that deal's too small. We really want to invest in a bigger deal. So I just realized I couldn't count on this. And my mentor one day, you know, speaking of a great reader, he sent me like 10 books. And but one day on the phone and this was actually on a phone call with other people from my company on there, a conference call. He said, listen, Paul, I've been telling you for two years, you what you need to do to go out and call, talk, cultivate an investment strategy and you haven't done it. Don't call me again until you've done what I said. And it hurt. And you know what, Brian? That is exactly what I needed to hear. Well, about a week later, I discovered this little purple podcast app on my iPhone. I'd never seen it. It had been there for years, but I didn't know what it was. You know how those things are. And someone said, you can listen to podcasts on here. This was only like three and a half years ago. And I said, OK, I'll try one else. So I stumbled around while my wife was in a department store one day and I stumbled into this podcast. I turned it on. And this is what I heard. The guy told a story. He said, if you're looking for investors, investors are really sensitive to being sold. They don't like to be chased. They don't like to be pushed. They will run away if you look desperate or if you're putting any pressure on them. So don't do that. Then he told this story and I hope I can leave your listeners with this. He said if you're up north and you want to live on salmon, let's say you're up in the Pacific Northwest and you're all alone out in the wilderness and you want to live on salmon, you can become a spear fisherman. He said you'll have to learn to whittle the limbs you off, to learn to carve them. You'll have to learn to throw these spears. You'll have to hope that a salmon swims by in the dark stream, right when you are poised and ready, you'll have to hope that they don't dodge your spear. You can possibly get it to shore and you might be able to eat some salmon. That's how spear fishermen live, he said or you can do this. And this is where the analogy becomes silly, Brian. But he said you can be a grizzly bear standing in the waterfall with your jaw unhinged and waiting for the salmon to jump into your mouth. And he said that is the way to find investors and I stopped the audio. I replayed that story like four times and my wife came back the car. And I was so excited. I said, I found the key. I found the key. This is it. And she thought it was a little nuts. But then basically that the story meant that, you know, we need to become content or subject matter experts and let people call us and ask to invest. So I was already working on it. I wrote a book on multi-family investing and I published it. Then I started a podcast. We have a podcast, a wealth building podcast called 'How to Lose Money'. And we also I became a guest on about one hundred and thirty other podcasts over these three years. I actually started writing on a blog for Bigger Pockets, which has 1.6 million members. It's the largest real estate blog out there. I started providing video content, started speaking occasionally live, wrote another book, and all these things I've done have caused people to come to me. They've come to me. They asked to invest. I have people who contact us every day, sometimes several a day, who say, hey, I'm interested in investing with your company. How do I learn more? And so now we have hundreds of investors and it's working great. So I that's how we do it. That's how we market to investors at Wellings Capital.
Brian Kelly:
Goodness sakes, that's an amazing story. I love the bear story. That is, that's very cool. And so true so many you know, it is interesting. We were talking before the show and you know, I'm putting together a very, very comprehensive training course. It's going to be online. And the thing I have seen and I've been guilty of myself is you work so hard to put it together. Then when you're done putting it together, you think you're done. It's like it can't be that can't be farther from the truth. Now is the time to really turn up the effort in the heat and marketing it, instead of standing there like a bear waiting for that fish to jump in your mouth, you need to go out and throw the spear and target and work. And so I use that analogy recently, and it it's very telling. I mean, a lot of people think that you just build it and they will come like the old movie. Right. And I appreciate that.
Paul Moore:
Right. Yeah, it's really true. With investors it's quite different than, you know, than chasing people for a marketing program or whatever. Now I've got another company and we generate leads for real estate agents on that one we have to throw the spear all the time. But with this company, we are the bear in the waterfall waiting for investors to come to us.
Brian Kelly:
Phenomenal, phenomenal. I love it. We have some people chiming in saying hello. Thanks, Amanda, for coming on. Adam Wynns is typing in there. He's like guess it's OK ,you can stop now. You've created your product. It's just chill out. And that's with the smiley face. And then genius, probably talking about you. No doubt. This is amazing. Appreciate all of you coming in, chiming in and actually just having fun with us because we are here to have fun. But we want to give you the greatest value we possibly can. And it's coming by way of this gentleman right here, Mr. Paul Moore. He is just an amazing gentleman. And I appreciate you once again so much for spending the time here on the East Coast in Virginia. If I recall. Is that correct? Yeah, that's right. And so it's kind of late there. Right now it's 9:00 p.m. and this man is sticking it out and he's very alert and just bringing it. And I appreciate that. And you know, you talked about being a serial entrepreneur and then you have kind of collected yourself and decided, I'm just going to focus on one thing. Find out one thing I'm passionate about and just go everything at that. How has being an entrepreneur affected your family life over the years?
Paul Moore:
Yeah. So we home schooled four of our kids and all four. And we it was great for me to be home. It was great for me to have an office out of my home. It was great for me to be able to be here, to take my kids to school, to take my son hunting, fishing, et cetera. But it also was very challenging because I didn't learn for years when to turn the work switch off. So, I mean, I might be at dinner getting texts and calls. And, honey, I've got to get this one. It's this one important call. And I've even got a call with an investor tonight after this. And so it's. They are in China, by the way. So that's one of the reasons. But at any rate, it's been really, really hard, honestly, because, you know, they say there's a joke out there that says being an entrepreneur is great. We have the freedom to work any 80 hours a week we want. And, you know, that's been true for me. I don't know that it's been 80 all the time, but it has been challenging for me to draw that line between work and home. And so I've actually signed up for three coaching programs over the years. I've spent a lot of money on coaching. I really believe in that. And the newest one I'm in is actually one of their core principles is to teach entrepreneurs to take time off and draw that line of separation that my wife is so happy that I'm going to be signing up for this program. But at any rate, so it's been great. I'd say it's been a blessing and a challenge.
Brian Kelly:
I love that. And learn how to learn when to turn the work switch off. I couldn't have said that better. I went through a phase in my life. This is going back probably two decades ago. But I did that same thing where I could not figure out how to turn that damn thing off. And I would be up working till very late. My wife would call up and say, dinner's ready. I've got two young kids at the time and I'll say, yeah, I'll be down in a minute and a minute, became two hours. And then I come downstairs to a rightfully so not happy wife and kids. Kids are probably in bed by then and we're many times and just kept doing this over and over. And finally, thankfully, she communicated to me that we had an issue. And thankfully this happened. And, you know, it hurt because I was in the wrong, though there was no doubt. And I'm so glad that she brought that to my attention. So we are still happily married to this day, many years later, over 30 years now. And it's been an amazing ride. But you're so right, it it's it takes discipline in that regard on when to shut things down. Right. And if you can get into that routine that you were talking about before and I'm not talking about you doing this. It's for the people listening. You know, make that part of your routine and make rules in your own life because, you know, when you work for someone else. They make the rules for you. They tell you you get off work at 5:00 or whenever it is and you shut down, you know, corporate employees, they shut down. They go out and have fun. They don't have dinner. They do whatever. They do chores. But for entrepreneurs, it's often we get snowballed in our own activities and it can definitely run away. And it still does on occasion, but certainly not habitually anymore. So I can still relate with that. Paul, that was right down our alley, man. And so you've done a lot of businesses, you've got a lot of experience in a wide, diverse number of areas of business, and from all of the experience of those, what have you found to be the most successful way of building a customer base? One that sticks with you that you can nurture and keep coming back to you. Time and again.
Paul Moore:
Yeah, one thing we've done is really try to create a lot of content. Try to create a lot of value by enriching our customers lives, by telling them resources other than just investing with us. I was talking to a guy today, a doctor in Boston, and I said, you know, he was talking about investing quite a lot with us. I said, you know, you haven't invested with us before. Maybe you should consider investing a smaller amount and spreading that out to other operators. Other investment funds that I could recommend or you could find on your own. And I think people appreciate that because I'm just offering value. I do a lot. Like I said, a lot of blogs, a lot of free videos. I do conference calls with investors or even people just seeking advice every Wednesday. And so I do things like that. And by creating that value, hopefully we become somebody our customers trust and will return back to in the future.
Brian Kelly:
I can so appreciate that on so many levels, Paul. Coming from someone like you that has achieved a great level of success, because I've also run into so many others who are the opposite, where they're not there to create value, but they're in there for the quick kill and at all at all costs, really at their business costs. And they don't realize it in the beginning. That stat short term kill, so to speak, that gets them that jolt of income. And they say, that's good, I'm going to keep doing that. But then they don't nurture their customers, their base, their clients or their team and train them. They're spending all their time for those quote unquote, quick kills. And I've seen that happen several times in the past. The people I've known and I watch in front of my eyes how it crumbles and I've had them call me Brian. I don't understand. Everybody is asking me to help them now, but I don't have time because I'm out there, you know, crushing it with these closing of the sales. I said, You got to put a pause button out there, buddy, and you got to start nurturing those people. Are you going to lose it all? And guess what happened? You know, eventually it all withered away. And so a lot of people are now shifting over to the concept you just mentioned, Paul, and that's providing value. This show is my way of providing value. I don't charge a dime for it. It doesn't cost my guest to come on and appear and and vise versa. I don't pay a guest to come on. It's here for free information because it's near and dear to my heart to get knowledge to the people who desperately want it, who are hungry for it. And if they're hungry, they will listen to it. A couple of things you said in the past. Just a little bit ago, coaching. I mean, ladies and gentlemen, look at this gentleman. He's super successful and he is hiring coaches. I mean, what kind of lesson does that provide to everyone watching and listening? It's a successful lesson. That's what it is. And the most successful people on the planet. I mean, one that is an you know, a go to an obvious go to is Michael Jordan in basketball. One of the most successful players, maybe the greatest of all time. That's debatable by many. But he was on the top of his game and he didn't do it alone. He had many coaches that he paid for, not just the coach of his team, but he had athletic trainers. He had extra coaches going on the side. Tiger Woods, the same thing. Every every successful person that I can't name one successful person, you know, that did it 100 percent solo with nobody helping or coaching or mentoring. Yeah, I don't I don't see if you could. And so for those watching, listening, invest in yourself, put money into it. Pay for a, you know, very commendable, successful coach if you want to learn how to how to make money in real estate and commercial real estate. You're looking at the guy right here next to me. Reach out to him. Get involved with his company and pick his brain to become successful in the real estate market. You know, whatever you need, there's a coach or mentor out there willing to teach you. Are you willing to be tough? That's the bottom line. And many aren't, honestly, because of that big e-word ego. I can do it all myself. I used to be the same. I think everybody has been down that path at one point or another. Now, as an entrepreneur, you know, one of the things I've learned is to be OK with not being perfect, to be okay with things, not going the way you plan because it never seems to, and it often more often than not goes the way you don't expect it or nor want it. So along those lines and the cool thing is, though, successful people like yourself used those those times to learn those events to learn from. What would you say is one of the biggest learning? I like to call mistakes, but I'll just call it mistake right now. What are some of the biggest mistakes you've possibly made in the back behind where you are now? And what have you done to react to those and rise above them?
Paul Moore:
Yeah, I think the biggest mistake I made was after. So I was 33 years old. I had sold my company for almost 3 million bucks. I had that money. I start a nonprofit organization at that point and I thought, I'm a full time investor now. Well, the truth was, Brian, I was a full time speculator, now, is what I was. The difference between investing and speculating is really critical. I thought I was an investor. Now, investing is when your principal is generally safe and you've got a chance to make a return. Speculating is when your principal is not at all safe and you've got a chance to make a return. And the difference is quite important. Now investing, unfortunately for entrepreneurs, we're really optimistic bunch. We are excited about things we think of best case scenario. And when we go after something, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The problem is when we invest that way, we often swing for the fences. Now, some of the wealthiest, most famous entrepreneurs in history swung for the fences and they hit it out of the park. Jeff Bezos with Amazon. You know, we've got, you know, people like Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, et cetera. They hit it out of the park. But those people now, Buffett shouldn't have been on that list. I was wrong for putting him in there. I'll tell you why in a minute. But those people that hit it out of the park are the exceptions. They're legendary because they're generally one in a million or better. And so we can't generally replicate that kind of thing. You know, Elon Musk struggles have been an example of not being able to replicate necessarily the great success you had one time. The problem is when we do that as entrepreneurs, we might hit it out of the park once like I did in the early to mid 90s, and then try to invest money that way. When we invest that way, trying to swing it for the fences, trying to do something exciting. We can often really mess up. You know, Paul Samuelson was the first Nobel Prize winner from the US in economics. And Paul said investing should be more like watching paint dry or watching grass grow. If you want excitement, take eight hundred dollars and go to Las Vegas. So, Brian, I was speculating and I made a lot of money on some deals and I lost a lot of money on a lot of deals. And so I found that the money I had from selling that company was largely evaporated over a number of years and I had to rebuild. Robert Kiyosaki said if you make a million dollars by the time you're 30 and blow it all by the time you're 40, what do you have at that point? The opportunity to start over again. And that's what I had to do a number of times. And that's why I don't like being a shiny object chasing serial entrepreneur. Now, when I learned to invest, I viewed it more in a baseball analogy. Instead of swinging for the fences, Brian, I viewed it more as trying to hit singles and doubles, which is what our company is trying to do now. And sometimes you do better, sometimes you get a triple or better. But not swinging for the fences has been a really important change in strategy and it's really, really worked well.
Brian Kelly:
Yeah, and boy, I can relate to everything you just said. So many of us watch and see these people have astronomical success that hit it out of the ballpark the first time and then expect that we should be able to do the same. And that, I think, is what crushes so many dreams because it's so far from reality. The odds are astronomically against. And I love the analogy with baseball, where, you know, now it's about getting the hits and doubles because those turned into runs and runs will get you to a winning game. And that is great advice for anyone out there. I mean, it it takes time, it takes diligence, it takes perseverance, and it just have to be in it for the long haul. And you touched on it earlier, Paul, that a big part of the reason that you have stuck it out is because you had a very, very compelling why to go about and, you know, to keep this going. So if you don't have that powerful, why those of you watching or listening, you know, what is something that you would go crawl over broken glass for a mile for? Is it somebody or something, a cause that no matter what happens during this wonderful journey down entrepreneurship lane, when you're going through the good times and in tough times hit, who who are what is that reason you will never, ever quit no matter what. And if you don't have that, it can be a very difficult thing to actually stay the course until the end and reach the finish line. And so, Paul, you're just my gosh, the nuggets of wisdom are just flying left and right. And amazing. And I can't wait to get to more questions with you. Because there is one at the end. I cannot wait. Especially because it is very compelling and I don't want to talk it up too much just at the moment. But. So we talked about things that that you look back and you could have done differently, but you've gotten past it, obviously. And those were I coined as mistakes, even though they're just learning situations. On the other side, you know, being an entrepreneur, there are many things that are kind of set aside for us to get to that level of success, because let's face it, it takes, like you said, sometimes up to eighty hours a week to get this done. What kind of sacrifices have you had to make that come to mind to become a successful entrepreneur?
Paul Moore:
Yeah. You know, I was on the Bigger Pockets podcast last year and they asked me, what are your hobbies? And I kind of froze like a deer in the headlights, because I guess that would be my biggest sacrifice. If you want to call it that, I you know, at one point I actually told somebody my favorite hobby was work. And that's probably a bad idea. But anyway, I think that's been the biggest sacrifice. The second one is, like I said before, I've had a really hard time switching off in the evenings and the weekends. And I think those have been the biggest sacrifices I've made. I mean, I don't watch TV, which I'm fine with. But I don't have time to read pleasure books. I mean, I read books for business all the time, but I don't have time for novels and sitting by the pool and all that kind of stuff. And I'm OK with that. But I guess you could say that those were sacrifices as well. I always wanted to learn to wind surf and I have done it, but I haven't ever gotten good at it because I haven't taken the time. So there you go.
Brian Kelly:
And another one I can totally relate with because for me, and it sounds like it is for you, work isn't work. I enjoy it. I totally agree. Yeah. And so an interesting thing occurred just recently. My wife and I went on a, I remember 10 or 11 day cruise on the East Coast and it was beautiful, wonderful time. East Coast of the United States. And I remember around day seven or eight, I was getting stir crazy. I didn't, I brought, I brought my laptop, but there was no wireless access. I didn't intend to do anything on it. It was just there in case something came up. And I guess I started going stir crazy around day seven or so. And I caught myself really, really desiring to be back and be back in the office and be at it, because that's what I wanted to be doing, not because I had to. I wanted to. It was pulling me. And so, like you say, if you want to call it that, a sacrifice. I love how you did that, because, you know, hobbies are my hobby includes what I do. I mean, it's OK. I think it's OK. It's just like you said, the importance of knowing when to shut it off and be with those who we love the most and spend time with. That's really where it comes down to. You know, the differentiator, you know, if you're going to just be crazy and work till 2:00 in the morning and never see your spouse or your kids or anything that could come at a big sacrifice in its own right. Right. So if you were actually on the other side and you were sitting in my chair. And you were able to ask a question of yourself. What would that be? And then how would you respond to that question?
Paul Moore:
I would ask myself, what was your worst deal ever? What was your best deal ever? And so surprisingly, those are often, I mean, I think those are actually are the same deal. How could that be? Well, here's how it could be. In two 2004 to 2008, I was buying up waterfront lots and it was somewhat speculative because nobody needs a lot. You know, I consider true wealth. This is a little diversion from my answer. True wealth is assets that produce income. And so that's why things like Bitcoin and things like that. No offense to anybody who invested in it. It's really, truly speculative, though, because there's no way to tag the value of it. There's no way to put a value on Bitcoin. It's completely subjective. Well, buying lots at Smith Mountain Lake in Virginia for, say, two and three hundred thousand each and then cleaning them up, getting a permit, beautifying them, subdividing them and selling them for a large profit is also somewhat speculative. I mean, there is the value of the land itself that's underlying, but nobody needs to buy a lot. And so I was speculating, buying these lots. Increasing the value and then selling them. We had a bunch of them in late 2007. It was exactly 10 years to the month after I put about a million and a half of my bank account from selling our company. And I now had two and a half million in debt and that was no fun. And my partner approached me in late 2007 and he said, I can't do this anymore. I can't make half of these interest payments. I'm out of here. I'm going to end. He signed over all the lots to me, including all the debt, and said, see you later. We're still good friends, by the way, but it wasn't a fun time. And so I was trying to figure out what to do, Brian. This was clearly the one lot in particular. I think I had eight hundred sixty thousand debt on and that was a five acre waterfront lot. That if I would have subdivided, I would have been able to sell the five lots for an average of three to four hundred thousand dollars each. When times were good. And the problem is the speculation was, I should say, was there were supposed to be a county road there excuse me, a private road in front of this lot that was going to be turned into a publicly maintained road. And that would allow me to subdivide this into five lots. Well, the public maintained road, state maintained road never happened. And so I was stuck with these five one acre or excuse me, this five acre lot. That was my worst deal, I guess you could say. Well, in late 2007, of course, if you can remember, Brian, what that was like. We assumed that the downturn was over. You know, there was all this bad stuff, all the shaking quaking in the economy. Housing sales had slowed down to a crawl. And we were hoping at least that the worst was over, not knowing that we were about to go over the edge in 2008, a year later, into the worst slowdown since the Great Recession or excuse me, the Great Depression. See, it's so common now. I think that's the big one. But anyway. So I called a few friends together and they said, hey, what are you going to do? You're gonna declare bankruptcy? I said, no. I said, I was meditating this morning. And I said, I came up with this idea. What would George Mueller do now? George Mueller was this crazy hellion in Germany in the early eighteen hundreds. And he turned into a sort of a saint. He moved to England and he actually housed over 10000 orphans in his lifetime. And Brian, he did all this without ever asking anybody for a dime or even letting anybody know that he needed a dime. He actually raised what we believed to be on the order of three to five hundred million dollars in today's dollars, all without asking anybody. And he had all these really strong opinions, as you can imagine. And one was that you shouldn't have any debt. Well, I was already in trouble because I had two and a half million dollars in debt. But I thought if he found himself in debt, what would he do? And so I told my friends who were asking if I was going to declare bankruptcy, I said, I'm going to give my way out of debt. And that went over really well and they thought I was a little crazy. And I went home and told my wife and kids, hey, we're gonna give our way out of debt. I said, actually, our backs up against the wall, we may lose it all. We're going to lose it all anyway. So let's start giving generously and see what happens. So first week in January 2008, we wrote a large check to a nonprofit we cared about. Second week in January 3rd, we fourth week in January did the same thing. And about that fourth week, I actually ran into a real estate developer in a restaurant. And he said, hey, have you thought about this to solve your problem? He named a certain law. And I said, Yeah, I know all about that law. That won't work to solve my problem. He said, well, you ought to think about it. And boom, it was like this light bulb went off and I had this like sort of epiphany on how I could actually subdivide this lot. I could see it in my mind. And so rather than try to do it kind of on the Q.T. I actually went to the county planning and zoning board the next day and said, hey, here's my plan. I know it's kind of crazy. I have my surveyor with me, who is a long time veteran with this county zoning board, and he had his head in his hands like he was so embarrassed to be there with me because I agame this crazy, outlandish idea. And the lady told me so. She said, that's outlandish. I've been working here for decades. No one's ever come up with such a an end run on our law, she said. But you're right. She said you found a loophole in the law that nobody has ever found. You can do this. And so I did it. And Brian, it was a lot of work, a lot of meetings with lawyers and banks and surveyors and soil engineers. But 13 months later, in the middle of the great recession, I was 100 percent debt free. And I even paid off my house.
Brian Kelly:
Wow. All from giving. I love it.
Paul Moore:
I think so. I don't know. It just seems like there must have been a connection you know.
Brian Kelly:
I have no problem believing that that was a major reason for it. That's phenomenal. Phenomenal. I love it. I love it. Well, we are coming down to the wire here, my friend. And there is one looming question that I still wanted to bring up. And it's it's a very intriguing question because of the type of responses I get. And I asked this question of every single every single entrepreneur and guest I've had on the show. I've asked the same question. And just the answers have been amazing. Before we jump into that real quick, I want to remind everyone that they can win five nights, stay at a five star luxury resort in Mexico, and to do that, to enter, to win. Just follow what you see on the screen right now. And that is take out your cell phone. That's right. You have our permission to actually be a little distracted and type in the phone number 6 6 1 5 3 5 1 6, 2, 4. And then in the message area, type in the word peak, that's P E A K and send that and we will receive that and choose a winner. You'll be notified back via text. And this is all powered by powertexting.com as well as sponsored by. They are the ones providing this magnificent five night vacation stay. So go ahead. Text that right now to 6 6 1 5 3 5 1 6 2 4 and enter the word peak. Send that out PEAK and we will choose a winner and notify you back via text. And I hope each and every one of you has the opportunity to win. Well, you all have the opportunity, and I hope you all win. Only one winner, though, anyway. Love it, love it. Love it. So, Mr. Paul Moore, this question. And just to kind of ease any potential any potential nerves or anything, which I doubt you'll have them because you're a pro, you've been doing this for a long time. But the thing is the question, there is no such thing as a wrong answer. That's one thing I know. Yeah. And in fact, it's exactly the opposite. The only correct answer is yours, because this question is personal. And I don't mean in a in a deeply digging manner. It's just it means something different to each and every person. And when I say that to date, not two there're not two past guest experts, that I've answered it the same exact way. And I'm I know it's gonna happen sooner or later because there can only be so many variants of the answer. So that can give you an idea that, you know, whatever comes to your head is the right answer because it's yours. All right. So. All right. So, Mr. Paul Moore, are you ready?
Paul Moore:
I'm ready.
Brian Kelly:
Here we go. Paul Moore, how do you define success?
Paul Moore:
Wow. You know, that's a tough question. I think that it's different for everybody. And I just had a friend at a little doggy down a note here. I had a good friend who passed away yesterday. Completely out of the blue. He was at work. He dropped over and he, you know, he lost his life. His daughter and two sons and his wife lost their father and husband of 30 plus years. And, you know, I was thinking about what if that was me? Would I have I'd been successful. Have I done something, you know, in my life that was successful? And, you know, I don't want to be so ethereal to say it's not money. It's not providing a great income for my family. It's not building wealth for me and for my clients. I don't want to say that. But I think the most important things we can do is to fulfill the calling that we have in this world. You know, a lot. I talked to you about shiny object syndrome. I talked to you about chasing all these shiny objects and serial entrepreneurism. You know, I think each one of us were built and made a certain way to accomplish a certain thing. And a lot of us don't find that till we come to a place of what I call convergence. Now, convergence is when you look back on your life, often in your 50s or sometimes 60s, occasionally in your 40s, and you can say, OK, what are my what was my education? What what am I really good at? What are my skills? What am I weak at? What if I messed up that? Where if I succeeded? Where by failed, where are my resources? What do I have at my fingertips? Does it all come together and point to one thing? And can I do that? One thing is that within my grasp? And when you come to that place of convergence, you realize, oh, it's all pointing right here to do this. And if you can do that, this, then you'll be. You will have done what you were called, destined, created, designed for. And that's my goal on this earth. And of course, I want to be a great father, a great husband. I want to be a great friend and all those things. I think we would all agree on that. But I also want to see that place of convergence in my life where my skills and experience and resources are all put together. And I do that. One thing that I was meant to, I was, you know, one out of, what, eight billion people on the planet. If we were all doing that, one thing that we were destined for, then what amazing planet we would have. And so that's what how I define success.
Brian Kelly:
That's phenomenal. Wow. So eloquently put. I've never again. True to form. No, two have answered it the same. And that includes you. But convergence. What a great topic. I can imagine entire book being written about that. I wonder if there's anybody on this show that would actually be interested in doing something like that, taking on a book. I know you're writing another one. I'm actually in the process of completing my first. That is a great.
Paul Moore:
Awesome. There's guy name, if anybody's interested. There's a guy named Dr. Lance Wallnau L A N C E, Wallnau I think it's W A L L N A U. And he teaches on this thing of convergence and it's really powerful stuff.
Brian Kelly:
Excellent. I am definitely gonna look that up. And I also heard from a little birdie that there was something that you had for our listeners and our viewers, a little gift. And if you don't mind, I will just turn it over to you to take that away. Now bring up your website on the screen so you can guide everyone through that.
Paul Moore:
OK. Well, you know, I have been investing in apartments for years, but I found something more powerful in the form of investing in self-storage and mobile home parks. And even though I called my book The Perfect Investment and that's a book about apartment investing, I actually think at this moment in the cycle there's a lot more money and a lot more wealth to be created through investing in mobile home parks and self-storage. So I'm going to offer a free special report to anyone who wants to visit my Web site. It's Wellings Capital. That's wellingscapital.com/resources. And if you go there, you can sign up to get a free copy of this self-storage report and this mobile home park investing report. There you go. You only have to give us your first name and email and we'll get that right out to you.
Brian Kelly:
Phenomenal. Thank you so much on behalf of everyone that is watching and listening for that. That's going to be amazing. I'm going to do just the same and get those wonderful reports. Well, Paul, I want to tell you, my brother. It has been an amazing, wonderful ride with you tonight. I appreciate you beyond words. Is there is there a, what is the best way for folks to get in touch with you? Is it your Web site? Do you. Would you rather they got a Facebook, email or a phone number?How would you like...
Paul Moore:
Yeah, I think going to our website and filling out a contact form would be the best way. And again, that's wellingscapital.com.
Brian Kelly:
Thank you very much. And. Thanks so much for handling all that stuff that I normally do, which is spell things out and be very clear. This is a pro. You can tell. I love it. Paul, I wanted to say once again, thank you so very much for coming on spending this hour with me and with everyone who's been watching. And for those of you that are watching live and those of you that are watching at the recording later and listening on podcasts, we appreciate you for your time. We look forward to seeing you all again on the next episode of The MIND BODY BUSINESS Show. For now, on behalf of Mr. Paul Moore, this is Brian Kelly saying good night and we'll see you again next week. Be blessed, everyone.
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Paul Moore
After graduating with an engineering degree and then an MBA from Ohio State, Paul started on the management development track at Ford Motor Company in Detroit. After five years, he departed to start a staffing company with a partner. They sold it to a publicly traded firm for $2.9 million five years later. Along the way, Paul was Finalist for Ernst & Young's Michigan Entrepreneur of the Year two years straight. Paul later entered the real estate sector, where he completed 85 real estate investments and exits, appeared on an HGTV Special, rehabbed and managed dozens of rental properties, developed a waterfront subdivision, and started two successful online real estate marketing firms. Three successful developments, including assisting with the development of a Hyatt hotel and a multifamily housing project, led him into the multifamily investment arena. Paul co-hosts a wealth-building podcast called How to Lose Money and is a frequent contributor to BiggerPockets. Paul is the author of The Perfect Investment - Create Enduring Wealth from the Historic Shift to Multifamily Housing (2016) and has a forthcoming book on self-storage investing. Paul is also the Managing Director of two commercial real estate funds at Wellings Capital.
Connect with Paul:
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Narrator :
So, here's the big question. How are entrepreneurs like us, who have been hustling and struggling to make it to success, who seem to make it one step forward, only to fall two steps back. Who are dedicated, determined, and driven. How do we finally break through and win? That is the question, and this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Brian Kelly, and this is The MIND BODY BUSINESS Show.
Brian Kelly:
Hello, everyone, and welcome, welcome, welcome to The MIND BODY BUSINESS Show. Super excited for tonight's show. We have not just one, not two, not three, but four, four amazing guest experts who are joining me tonight right here on this very stage.
Brian Kelly:
They are waiting in the wings at this moment. So let's get busy. Shall we? The MIND BODY BUSINESS Show, that is a show about what I call the three pillars of success, and that came about as a result of my study of only successful people in the last decade or so. And these patterns kept bubbling to the top and those patterns being mine, which is mindset set. Each and every successful person, to a person, had a very powerful and flexible mindset. So I learned that and said," I need to implement that". Then body: body is about literally taking care of yourself. Through nutrition and through exercise, exercising on a regular basis, and again that was another pattern of very successful people and in business. These successful people had mastered the skill-sets that were necessary to create, maintain, and grow a thriving business. They're wide and varied. It's like marketing, sales, team-building, systematizing. It goes on and on and on, leadership. There's no one person, in my humble opinion, that could master every single one of these. All you have to do is master just one, and I actually mentioned one of those. It was in that list. I don't know if anyone caught that, but if you master just one of those skill sets then you're good to go. That skill set is leadership. When you've mastered the skill set of leadership, you can then delegate those skills off to people who have those skill sets. See where I'm going? Good. That's what successful people do; the ones that I studied, anyway, over the course of about 10 years. That's what this show's about. It's a show for entrepreneurs by entrepreneurs. I got four guests waiting, and I'm not going to wait any longer. So, I think we should just bring them on. What do you think? Let's do it.
Narrator :
It's time for the guest expert spotlight, savvy, skillful, professional and deft, trained, big league, qualified.
Brian Kelly:
And there they all are. These amazing, beautiful guests on The MIND BODY BUSINESS Show. How are you all doing? Altogether, too. That was phenomenal, I love that. So real quick. All of you, I hope you don't mind for just a moment. I want to do some housekeeping? I wanted to mention to everyone watching here live. If you stay with us till the end, you can win a five night stay at a five star luxury resort. All compliments of our friends at The big insider secrets dotcom. You see them flying by on the bottom of the screen right now. It's an amazing, amazing vacation stay. Stay until the end, and you'll learn how you can enter to win that wonderful prize. We also have this. If you're struggling with putting on a live show, and it's overwhelming and you want a lot of the processes done for you while still enabling you to put on a high-quality show. And connect with great people like the ones we have tonight, and to grow your business all at the same time, then head on over to carpet bomb marketing dotcom. Carpet bomb marketing, saturate the marketplace with your message. One of the key components that is contained in the carpet bomb marketing courses, and this is one that you'll learn how to absolutely master, is the very service we use to stream our live shows right here on The MIND BODY BUSINESS Show. Over the course of the past, now it's over nine years, we have tried many of these, "TV studio solutions" for live streaming. I'll tell you right now, Stream Yard is the best of the best. It combines supreme ease of use along with unmatched functionality. So, go ahead. You can start streaming high-quality, professional live shows for free. Yes, I said it. For free, with Stream Yard right now. Visit this website, and do this after the show over. Take notes while the show is going. So write this down R-Y-P dot I-M forward-slash stream live. R-Y-P dot I-M forward-slash stream live. Fantastic. Now let's get to the real fun, and the fun is these amazing people. Dylan, Julie, Tim, Christian. How are you all doing tonight? Thank you for being on this amazing show. Yes. So, what I'd like to do is open it up. Let the folks get to know you just a little bit now. Ok, guys. We're talking sixty seconds or less. All right. Just lay it low here, but we'll just go and order. I usually go ladies first, but let's just go around the circle. It's easier for me who's running the show. So. That's what's important. Right? So, let's start with Dylan Shinholser. Go ahead. Take it away. Give us a little brief background about you, what you do, and your business.
Dylan Shinholser:
Yeah, absolutely. So like I said, my name is Dylan Shinhoser. I own a couple of different businesses. I'm owner of a company called, "Experience Events", which is event management. I'm also a director of business development at a virtual event, event ticketing, and virtual event platform called, "ViewStub". As well as a co-host of another show called, "Event Masters", where I just ramble all day, every day about how to produce better experiences. It's really all I know and love to do is events. That is my less than 60-second pitch about myself.
Brian Kelly:
That's a good one, too. I'll tell everybody I've spoken with you in person. We had a call some time ago, and this gentleman, Dylan, is made of integrity and great character. So, reach out to him if you need any assistance in any of the areas he talked about, or if you just want to say hi to a really great guy. Then get in contact with him, and at the end of the show, we'll go through that. Please. Somebody remind me if I forget how to contact each of you. Because that's very important to me. This is the reason I bring this show to the forefront. (It) is to bring people like you into the lives of those who may not know who you are yet, and even those that do, to experience even more of your brilliance, your experience, your knowledge, and your value. It's not about me. This is about you. Always, always. Every time. I have one guest, usually. I just feel like I'm in this big family right now. But let's keep moving. Julie Riley, amazing young woman. Take it away.
Julie Riley:
Yes. So, I am Julie Riley. I am the social media manager at StreamYard. The platform we're using right now. Prior to my time with StreamYard, I owned my own marketing agency. I've been in digital marketing since two thousand and seven. So the very, very early days of the start of it is when I jumped in(to) digital marketing, and I love just being able to help others succeed in their business.
Brian Kelly:
Fantastic, and I will also say that I have spoken with Julie in the past. Both through a typewritten chat form and verbally. I think it was Clubhouse first time, which was phenomenal. Yet another phenomenal person, incredible integrity, and character. And yes, you're going to notice there's a pattern about this with the remaining two. It's the same thing. Hopefully, we can get the last one to talk a little bit. That will be nice. I'm just having fun because we were having fun before the show started. The one smiling. The biggest down there with the green hood; not pointing anyone out or anything. Thank you, Julie, for coming on. Yes. These people, Julie and Christian specifically, I know Christians coming up here in second. They're non-stop. They don't stop working. It's evident because of the very software research we're using right now. It's of grand quality for a reason. It's because of people like Julian Christian who keep everything rolling smoothly on the back end. Dylan's there nodding his head emphatically because he gets it. It's a lot of work, and they're doing it masterfully and we appreciate you. All right. Enough of the favoritism here that felt like favoritism. Julie's our favorite. Timothy McNeely! My buddy, my friend from just a little north of where I reside. I believe. If I remember.
Timothy McNeely:
Central California, baby. Bakersfield. Yeah, my name is Tim McNeely. Today, so many dentists and driven entrepreneurs are just not sure if they're getting advice that really makes a difference for them. They may have a financial adviser who is giving them some advice on their investment portfolio, but they're not really sure that they're on the right track to really maximize their net worth outside of their business. That's what I help them do. Maximize your net worth so that you can keep taking care of the people you love, support the causes you care about, really make that difference in the world, and build an amazing life of significance. I love doing streaming because I get to talk to some of the best of the best out there and share the knowledge with the beautiful entrepreneurial community.
Brian Kelly:
I'll tell you something on a personal note as well. Literally, we talked earlier today, Tim and I, on a Zoom call. He just reached out to me and said, "let's catch up." I had him on the show some time ago as a single, solo guest, and he was phenomenal. We've just kind of maintained a relationship, a friendship ever since. He just wanted to reach out and say, "Hi" and "What's up? What do you want to talk about?" We just started talking about business and things. He gave me resources that will help me in my business, and hopefully, I reciprocated it somehow. I don't know if I did, but it is the people like Tim, like Julie, like Dylan, like Christian. That is the cloth that they are all cut from. They are here to help people. That's why I love entrepreneurs. I love all of you. I mean it. I do. I love you. You guys are amazing. I didn't even get a crack at a Christian on that one. Jeez, I mean... there we go. That's a little better, but I'm telling you, he's working on StreamYard our stuff right now as we're on the show. I mean, I'm.
Christian Karasiewicz:
I'm really trying not to, seriously.
Brian Kelly:
The founder Geige Vandentop. If you ever watch this, there's a message to you. Ease up on your people. Alright? Just having fun. Alright, Timothy, you're an amazing guy. Thank you for spending your valuable time and coming on here. As well as Dylan, Julie, and the ever so talkative one, Christian. I'm not going to attempt to say your last name. I'll let you take care of that one. Welcome to the show, Christian. Let's hear all about your brilliance.
Christian Karasiewicz:
Sure. Thanks a lot for having me. My name is Christian Kerasiewicz. I'm the content marketing manager at StreamYard. So, pretty much anything you see on our blog that we're going to soon be launching. I'm the mastermind behind that. So, I do that. In addition to that, I also host live stream reviews, a YouTube show. We also do on the StreamYard YouTube channel where we invite people on to talk about their live streams and help them work through some of their problems, some of their challenges that they might be having with getting community or building a show. Thanks a lot for having me. I appreciate it.
Brian Kelly:
Oh, my gosh. Thank you again, Christian, for your time and being here. I mean, he's literally building a blog while on a live show. I mean, that's a great thing. I'm not even kidding with this one. That is phenomenal. That is showing such dedication. So, it's more than that. It's passion. It's love. You know? What time is that where you are, Christian?
Christian Karasiewicz:
About 9 o'clock, or yeah... about 9 o'clock.
Brian Kelly:
(Nine o'clock) PM. Ladies and gentlemen, in case you're watching this recording. Yes. By the way, I'm going to be on twenty-five different platforms after this is over. So no pressure, but don't mess up. I'm just kidding. So, this is a phenomenal group of people, and I can't wait to dig in. Christian, just what you just said, what you do is right down the alley of what I was hoping to talk about tonight. It'll go organically, but I wanted to talk about... I mean, look at Julie, and look at Christian, and look at their images. Look at their video. It is gorgeous. Here, we'll start with a really gorgeous one first. Look at that. I mean. If there were nose hairs that weren't in place, we'd see them. That's phenomenal, and there is Julie. Wow. Very beautiful. Even more beautiful. I should just have her up like this all the time, and we can just talk in the background. Because, you know, maybe more people would come on. So, you guys have phenomenal camera setups, and here's one thing I always like to preach to those who are getting into the live streaming game. Does it take money? Yes, it does. It takes resources. It takes cameras, microphones, (a) computer, internet, good internet, fast internet, lighting, doesn't have to be fancy. What I always say though, is, do the best you can with the resources you currently have. OK, I wanted to start it off that way because what we're about to talk about with Julie and Christian is their cameras. They are top of the line. We're not talking a one-hundred or two-hundred-dollar webcam here. I like to let ladies go first. So, Julie, do you have a story when you first turned on your new camera versus when you had the webcam and what that looked like and felt like.
Julie Riley:
Oh, my gosh, I turned that camera on, and it was immediately noticeable (the difference). I actually did a live on my personal Facebook page where I logged myself in as a second user into StreamYard. I had my Logitech camera that I had been using up as a camera and then had my new one. So, I could do back and forth and show everybody the difference between the two. What an upgrade that was. The Logitech served me great for years. It didn't stop me from going live, but that upgrade was immediately like, "oh, I can never go back down now".
Brian Kelly:
So, that so that is one thing. Let's say you're on the road, and I can imagine at some point both you and Christian, maybe, you'll be sent on the road to maybe support conventions and things that are on the road. Now, you want to stream live, what are you going to do then?
Julie Riley:
Well, you know, the great thing about the Sony is (that) it's a small camera. Tripods, portable ones, are small. I can take it with me. If all else fails, and I'm either on my phone or I'm on my little webcam or even my built in webcam, it's not going to stop me from going live. Is it going to be exactly what I want? No, but more than likely I'll have the Sony with me.
Brian Kelly:
Thank you for saying that. I mean, that spoke such volumes. I hope people are taking notes that are watching. Definitely take notes on this. Because, look, the show must go on. That's what I say, and this show tonight is the result of a guest who unfortunately was ill and could not make it on. So, I scrambled and found these four wonderful people to say, "I'll come on and do a panel with you." And that's it. The show must go on, and I'm going to either do it with people or I'll do it solo. It doesn't matter. Consistency is key, and we can talk more about that, too. I love how you're just talking about, Julie. Where, look, I don't care where I'm at. If I've got something and it's my time to go live, and I don't have my gear. I'm doing it.
Julie Riley:
Right.
Brian Kelly:
I love that commitment. So, thank you for that. For everyone listening, that's important. Yes, quality is important. Like I said, do the best you can with what resources you currently have. That includes, wherever you are. You may have a DSL camera that Julie paid five-hundred thousand dollars for. Oh, sorry, it wasnt that much.
Julie Riley:
Thank God it wasnt that much!
Brian Kelly:
What was the model of that again?
Julie Riley:
A6000.
Brian Kelly:
What does it run about?
Julie Riley:
It was about seven hundred.
Brian Kelly:
OK, not too bad. A little bit less than five-hundred thousand. Not much but yeah.
Julie Riley:
Yeah.
It's a phenomenal thing, and I love that that's your attitude toward commitment. I'll tell you. You have a similar attitude...anytime I go and ask for support through the back side of StreamYard community. I mean, like through messaging. When I say the backside, that's sounded weird. When I ask for support, you're always there. I mean, you don't sleep, and I appreciate that. So, keep not sleeping for everybody's sake. Christian, you do the same. So, Christian, what about you? When you made that initial change from whatever camera you had before to this unbelievably clear one year look you're working with right now. What did that feel like the moment you saw a difference?
Christian Karasiewicz:
So, it's very interesting actually. So, this is actually what I was using before. I've been using this for quite a number of years. This is a Logitech Brio. It does do 4K. I invested in this one and eventually came out, and the quality was fantastic. The only thing was, though. I wanted to scale. So this was great for traveling, for example. This is what I took around with me. Super portable. It's got the ability to put it on a tripod. Fantastic, but it did not allow me to scale, so I had to always take up another USB port and all that sort of thing. When I moved to the Sony, the Sony looked very good. I will say the one thing you have to do, though, is you need to go through the settings. There are a few adjustments you want to change. That's what's going to actually enhance your picture quality of it. It's a fantastic camera. It's a Sony 6400. Then, really, the other side to it is also the lens. So I'm using a Sigma lens. So, that I think is the real big difference. I mean you have the kit lenses it comes with. I did make the investment in the the additional lens, which I think that's actually what's contributing to why it looks so good. I will say from a quality standpoint, again, start with what you have. You know, the key things for live streaming. Audio is going to be your most important part. Then also, if you, for example, are using one of these webcams, make sure you have enough light. These things look great with a lot of light. When you don't have a lot of light, you're going to see pixelation. You're going to see distortion and things like that. So, turn it back to you.
Brian Kelly:
Especially with light, if you turn on the green screen feature, you really need to have good lighting then. That's the biggest time. I'm so glad to be liberated from that. Even though I loved it. This is actually a natural well behind me. I painted the entire studio. I actually occupy my daughter's former bedroom. I've been here for four or five years now, and I finally got rid of the cartoon drawings and the yellow paint. I'm a real boy now. I have a real studio. This is awesome.
Christian Karasiewicz:
That looks really good by the way. I was very surprised (by) your background because that looks like one of the standard backgrounds people would normally bring up during a live stream. One that has, you know, the gradient going around the outside. So, whoever did the painting on that fantastic job.
Brian Kelly:
Why, thank you very much. My wife did most of the work to be honest, but I feel like that helps with that. Yeah.
Timothy McNeely:
If you want that comparison between cameras. Right. Christine was just talking about the Logitech Brio. That's what I'm on, and you can see the massive quality difference between Kristen and Julie versus the webcam. So. Right. (A) huge step up.
Brian Kelly:
Yeah, we'll point that out in glowing detail right now.
Christian Karasiewicz:
You're using a green screen. Right?
Timothy McNeely:
Yeah.
Brian Kelly:
Your sound, Christian, is smooth. I mean, you have a great radio voice. Having that microphone, I think will pivot to that too. Dylan, what are your thoughts on cameras? Yours looks actually really decent right now? You're on (a) green screen, correct?
Dylan Shinholser:
Correct. Yeah.
Brian Kelly:
It looks really clean. You've done a good job with all the lighting. It's almost like you've done this before, and you know what you're doing.
Dylan Shinholser:
I try. Yeah. So, I actually when I first started doing it, I started listening back on my phone. When this whole pandemic hit, I was using the one inside your laptop and realized very quickly (that) I'm on calls all day, live streaming shows and stuff. I was like, "I got to set my game up." So, I haven't made that leap yet to the DSLR, but I will. I'm on a Logitech, one of the models. I won't even lie because I'm not that tech-savvy. It was expensive for Logitech, so I bought it. I was like, "it's got to work." So, yeah. So, that's where I'm at. I agree heavily. I think it comes down to, because we get asked it and I know you guys get asked, it comes down to what you can afford at the moment. Then always trying to push the limits of production value. Right? My background was a wall. It was just like random yellow wall, and now I have a giant green screen wallpaper now. So, now, I can be wherever I want which is a concert. That's where I want to be, and that's where I'm going to be.
Brian Kelly:
You're the one on the stage, brother. Not the audience.
Dylan Shinholser:
No, I'm actually the guy behind the stage. I never want to be this. It's actually weird for me to be in front of people. I'm the guy behind the stage telling people to get on the stage.
Brian Kelly:
Pushing them forward. Well, you do a good job, Dylan. I wouldn't know any different. Maybe your calling is to step out from behind and be on front more often.
Dylan Shinholser:
We will see. Twenty twenty-one has a lot of stuff, and I've got a long way to go. I got super bored in twenty-twenty so I might as well talk.
Brian Kelly:
I've gotten to know you a little bit over time, and you've got a great personality. I think you need to shine in front of more people. That's my humble opinion.
Dylan Shinholser:
I appreciate that.
In the front, not behind the scenes. It's okay to be behind the scenes on occasion, but someone like you with your personality and your integrity, your character...get out there, buddy. It's a disservice if we don't get to see you. Let me put it that way.
That's what a mentor of mine said. He was like, "dude, you're actually being selfish by not talking more and getting it out." Because like I said at the beginning, I only want to help more people create better experiences and events. Make them flow better and make them more money as humanly possible. At the end of the day, I just want to travel the world with cool people and do cool things. I've learned a lot, and a lot of people need some of that experience. So, I got a stern talking to by one of my mentors. He was like, "dude..." I was like, "alright, it's alright. I promise." I started live streaming then had to get better cameras, better lights going on. It's crazy up here in my little command center of all these different lights, webcams, and monitors. Everything you need to do to pull these shows off.
Brian Kelly:
Yeah, I love it. Christian, go ahead.
Christian Karasiewicz:
So, I want to throw something in there real quick. We talked about various types of cameras. If you're just getting started, use that built-in laptop, the webcam. So then you can take it up a notch. You can go to the Logitech. The C922. That's about, I think, a 60 to 70 dollar webcam. So, don't overpay by the way. It's about 60 to 70 dollars. Get it from Logitec, probably. If you find an astronomical price on Amazon, move up to like the Brio, for example. If your budget allows it, that's about one hundred fifty dollar camera. Then move up to a DSLR. For example, Julie's got that, the Sony 6000. I would also say if you happen to have a smartphone, this can be used as a webcam. Essentially, if you think about it, this is a thousand dollar camera. Because you paid a thousand dollars for this device of sorts, and this will give you some phenomenal picture quality. If you already have a smartphone and you don't have to have the latest iPhone, it could be pretty much any iPhone and Android phone. You just need an app such as one called,"Camo." There's one called,"Erion." So, there are lots of apps out there. Don't think like, "hey, I have to now go drop a bunch of money." Look at the phones you have lying around. Those are going to be great ways to fix your picture quality.
Julie Riley:
I've been going live since 2015, and I only had this camera last year.
Brian Kelly:
That's it. You keep reinvesting. I had a good friend of mine who were business partners. He said, I'll never forget it,"sales drive service". When you're making money, you're able to invest. You're able to up your game, and I love that. So many great points. You can just set a phone on a tripod and your camera will look better than many people's webcams. For sure. One of the things that I would recommend, this isn't just a plug StreamYard, is to get at least get the free plan. Do they need any more than the free plan to be part of the community, Julie?
Julie Riley:
No. They can come to join the community even if they're just getting started into streaming. We do like everybody to have the free plan so they have an understanding, but we'll still let you in. Agree to the rules. That's the big thing. Yeah, come join the StreamYard community. It's really a "stream yard" community.
Brian Kelly:
It's a very valuable place because questions like what Christian just addressed are often asked (What do I need?). I'm just starting. I'm a newbie. I see that so much in there. What can you do to help with a camera or microphone or computer? You can go there if you have those questions and ask, and the community will fill in the blanks wonderfully well because they're a great bunch of people. Just like Tim down there who's gotten pushed to the side for a while. So, Tim, is this your first camera that you've been using for live streaming so far? Did you have one before it?
Timothy McNeely:
Yeah, right. I started with just an HD one. Right. Logitech and then jumped up to the Brio. Been happy with that so far. But, you know, it's interesting how the game keeps growing again. That's the thing, right? Just get started! Just do this. I started with just using zoom and recording those for my interviews, and then I realized (that) I need a better platform. I need a way to kind of do that live production. Now I'm doing Stream Yard and got intros. Just get started with whatever you've got and kind of build that proof of concept. You know, I recently just upgraded my lights because I bought the cheapest lights I could at first. I just wanted to do something, and done is better than not done a lot of times.
Brian Kelly:
I totally agree with everything you just said and like what Christian was saying. If you're going to put money into anything, make it the audio side of things first when you upgrade. I was fortunate. I started over nine years ago streaming live. This is a DSLR. Not a DSLR. Good grief, XLR microphone. It's old school. It's not even USB. So I plug it into a mixer board, and from there into my computer. I've used it for years. It's been just amazing. I've never had to do anything with my sound as a result. For you, there are great USB alternatives now. Oh my gosh, there are so many out there. Someone like Christian could probably point you in the right way. Someone like the StreamYard community could push you in the right way and tell you,"these are the ones". I have a connection with the guy who is a sound expert. I've never heard of this before. He has a studio that does 4D sound. I don't even know what that means. Four dementional?
Christian Karasiewicz:
Sweet.
I don't know what that means, audibly. He was telling me about speakers in the ceiling. I'm like, holy moly,. You don't need that obviously for a talk show like this, but think about the possibilities and have fun with it. The bottom line is, when you go on and go live. Enjoy yourself. I'm trying to do that a little bit with these fine people tonight. Thankfully, they're still here with me. I haven't upset them too great, especially Christian. I keep picking on him. Poor guy. I appreciate you all, and it's okay to have fun on your show. Would you guys agree with that? Is it okay to have a little bit of fun?
Julie Riley:
One hundred percent. If you're having fun, your audience is going to be having fun with you.
If you're not having fun... I don't believe in doing anything that I don't find fun. It's a life motto of mine. If I don't want to do it, I don't want to do it. Yeah. Like you said, Julie. If you're not having fun with it, then how in the world do you expect the viewers to want to have fun or engage or interact? It starts with you.
Brian Kelly:
Absolutely, absolutely. One of the things I wanted to pivot to is something I'm deeply interested in because the product that came up earlier when I did the quick ads spot. I like to solve the pain points that people are having in their live streaming experiences. I'm curious. I'll bet, Julie and Christian, you guys have seen and heard a lot about that. I actually had a team member of mine from my company put a poll up in the form of a meme, a graphic. What's the right word? I am having trouble with words these days. It's an infograph. That's it. Simple. I was a little bit shocked by the result, but I was just curious what you guys think. What are the biggest pain points you're seeing? (Either) that you're having individually. Tim, if you have that as well. Dylan as well. Dylan, you probably hear about a bunch of it as well. What are the pain points you are seeing come back over and over and over again? I'm having a horrible time trying to find another guest on my show if they're interview style, or the tech is just blowing my mind. Even though StreamYard is so simple. I'm having trouble with x, y, z. Let's just go around the horn. Dylan, if you don't mind, I put you on the spot. Can you think of any of those pain points that keep coming up over and over again?
Dylan Shinholser:
Yeah, absolutely. The biggest thing I see is they underestimate what it does take. I totally agree. Why I promote StreamYard to our clients and everyone I possibly can is because of the ease of use. People go into it and think shows are just like setting up the webcam, and they can be. Setting up the webcam and just talking. Right? There's a lot of back end stuff to this. These shows and I'm learning that as doing my own now. I'm like, holy cow, I'm about to hire fifteen people because this is absurd. But, yeah. I think that's the biggest thing that I see is underestimating it, but also at the same time, they overcomplicate it. They have to think (that) they have to have all these bells and whistles and seventeen thousand cameras and two million dollar microphones. It goes back to our first point of "just do it". It doesn't need to be overcomplicated, but understand going into it, there is some work that takes and understand that you do have to respect what it takes to put these on. At the same time, don't overcomplicate it. It's funny how people work. They overestimate or underestimate it, but then heavily overcomplicate it at the same time. I think that's the biggest one I see.
Brian Kelly:
I'm so glad you brought that up. I've said this so many times, people don't realize what goes on behind the scenes before the show even comes on live for that episode. The amount of time and effort. If you want to do a live show that's of quality and represent yourself and your brand in a way that you want it to be represented professionally. It takes a good amount of work for every single show. That's why I automated nearly every process (that) I use now. It took time to get there, but you can use a team. You can get a team. Like you said, Dylan, to also help out. For me, it's all about quality, and more time is spent before the show by far than the show itself. After the show is over, another good deal of time is spent. That is in the minor edits, the repurposing, the marketing, and everything else that goes beyond. The live show is this tiny window of time, and it's the fun is part of it by the way. When you have everything automated, the rest is not "not fun" because you're not doing it. It's all automated, but definitely great. Thank you for that. Julie, what has been some of the big p.. sorry to wake you up there. What have been some of the big pain points? You are wide awake. I just starttled you. You've seen over and over, I bet you've seen a bunch of them.
Julie Riley:
Oh, my gosh. So many, you know, especially because I'm approving all of the comments that are coming into the group. I think one of the huge ones is that the hesitation of people who believe that they have to have everything perfect. That they have to have all of the backdrops, the overlays, the banners, the super expensive microphone, and the super expensive camera. That they have it. The room behind them is messy. They haven't thought about turning to just a blank wall because they're like, "well, then I don't have a fancy studio set up." They get to this point where they're trying to create perfection, and perfection is a fairy tale. It doesn't exist. There is no such thing as perfection. There is, again, where Dylan said the overcomplicating it. They've got to really just slow down and go, "what do I need to get this process going?" What is the minimum to make it happen? From there, then I can then build on it, and build on it each week. Go, "okay, I got live. I got the first one out. I got the jitters out. I hate the way I sound." When I had my agency, I would tell my clients. They'd be like, "I can't stand the way I sound." I'm like, nobody likes the way (that) they sound. There's actually, and I say this all the time, there's a term for it that is a term for not liking the sound of your own voice. I tell people, you have to get over that fear. They're like,"I don't look good on camera, I don't know how to be on camera." The other thing I tell people is to set up a fake Facebook group with nobody else in it but you. Go live in there a bunch of times and just get those jitters out. Get that feeling of pressing the button and going live. Then invite your husband in, your sister, your mother, or whoever. Somebody so that you're talking to somebody. From there, build up each time. As we said with the cameras, again, you can you can slowly build. You can slowly add in the overlays. You can slowly add in the backgrounds.
Brian Kelly:
My goodness! I absolutely love it. I have my own Facebook group that I use just for that. Nothing more. I go in there, and I test things for StreamYard and other things in there. I go live in there because there's no substitute for going live. We've got more buttons to click, and things kind of change their arrangement just a little bit in the window. If you practiced it 20 times without going live, then you go live you're going to go, "what the heck just happened?" I don't know what I'm supposed to do now. That was perfect. Perfect advice. I love that. We've got a comment coming in or two or three. Yeah. Kelly, crucial. Kruschel. Sorry if I got that wrong.
Dylan Shinholser:
Kelly Kruschel. It's Kruschel. She said she's on my team. She's a friend. Hey, we've got a supporter.
Brian Kelly:
Love it. Love it. Then Fran Jesse, I know her. I'm getting ready to make my first video essentially input. Yeah. Reach out, Fran. We're friends. I will give you assistance in any way you want because this is the greatest this is the greatest avenue for media on the planet, in my humble opinion, for so many reasons. One is people get to see you. I love clubhouse. It's also phenomenal in different ways, but people get to see you. They get to interact with you. They can engage with you, and they get to see your essence. It doesn't cost you, the studio owner, studio time. If you do this in the old days when you have to go to a television studio and you want to do a show, it would cost you thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars just to use the studio. Let alone get the media time to put it up on a television station. We're living in wonderful times. It's the greatest time to be alive, in my humble opinion. I'm a tech geek. I'm not young anymore. I'm fifty six, but I can't wait for the rest of what my life has to hold. Yes. You're welcome, Fran. Any time. Wonderful. Wonderful. Alright. Where were we? I got all messed up and loving myself there. We're going to have fun. I'm being real. This is like... I don't know. I'm the most relaxed (that) I've been in a long time with everything that went on today. It was one of those weird, everything-going crazy days. I feel like I'm at home with you guys. That's why.
Dylan Shinholser:
It's been one of those years.
Brian Kelly:
Thank God that last one is over.
Dylan Shinholser:
Yeah, yeah. Sure.
Brian Kelly:
So, okay. Pain point. Let's go back around one more. Tim, what do you have?
Timothy McNeely:
Yeah. When I first started doing this, my whole goal was to get out there and to talk to the different experts in the different areas of the challenges that my my clients face. I started off as an interview show and just using Zoom to record the video. Then all of a sudden I had the video. Now I had to put an intro in. I had to put an exit in. I had to extract the audio so I could do the podcast. My team members and myself were spinning our wheels. Just trying to really kind of create a workflow around the creation of this content so we could get the message out and help people with their challenges. For me, all of a sudden, the revelation was (that) I can do this live. I can have people type in (and) ask comments as I'm doing the show. Not only that, from start to finish, I can produce the whole thing going live. Right? You go live. You can play an intro now. You can throw in little commercial breaks. You can throw in the outro, and then it's done. Download the audio. You throw it up, and now you've got your podcast. You don't have to upload video to YouTube and Facebook and LinkedIn. It's done for you now, automatically. So really my biggest pain point was just the production side of things and putting everything together so that I could keep talking to people and doing the fun part. Right? I don't want to get caught up in all the details of making this. I want to talk to people, learn, and share that knowledge. Really, a lot of the pain point, just using StreamYard has really been absolved because it's a turn-key easy to use platform.
Brian Kelly:
Amen to all of that brother. Here's the key for everyone that's ever going to do a live show or has done one. The most important part is that you show up and you be the talent. That means you need to be dedicated mentally toward what the task is at hand. If I have too many things going on, like production-wise, which I used to when I didn't automate things. That's in the back of my mind. Did I dot every "i"? Did I cross every "t"? What's going to screw up on this show? Versus showing up fully for my guest. Being there for them. Getting out of myself and my own business and being present for the other person, that's what I'm about. Lifting up the other people, that's what my show's about. It's important to me.
Timothy McNeely:
Actually, if I can touch on that talent piece, Brian? I think he brought something up so important for everyone listening to this. If you're doing any kind of a show where you're interviewing people, chances are (that) the person you're talking to (is) a little bit uncomfortable. Your job, as the talent, is to spend some time before the show really crafting what it's going to look like. What direction are you going to go in? You want to make that person you're talking to look like a star. The more you can rehearse with them and put them at ease, you're going to end up with a much, much better show. Because you've taken a little bit of time to make sure that (the) other person is going to shine just as bright as you do. So, take that time to work with your guests beforehand through interview guides, through little questionnaires. So that you can help prep them, to keep them on a thread, and you can really help them deliver their message. Most people are not trained professional speakers. They just aren't. I've hired some of the best speaking coaches to help me develop messages, stay on topic, and learn how to tell stories. People don't invest time, energy, and effort to do that. You can help them do that through a briefing before you start your live with them.
Brian Kelly:
Yeah. That's why I was saying before, I do a thirty-minute preshow. All of us were on here for 30 minutes getting to know each other, making sure all the tech was good, doing some checkout. You were talking about people being nervous and stuff. That's why I'm riding Christian so hard with all these jokes and stuff because it broke his nervousness. You can see his sweating. I am so kidding. This guy's raw. He's a rock. He's awesome. He's a pro. I love this guy, man. I always pick on the quiet ones. I don't know why that is. Christian, man, you're bringing massive value. All kidding aside, you're very experienced. You're matched for what you do. You've said already so many amazing things. What about you, brother?
Christian Karasiewicz:
I'd say this. I think a couple of the pain points. I think one is people want to ask, "how do I get better at my live stream?" I think (that) the first thing is practice. To Julie's point, I think you mentioned having overlays, backgrounds, and all this other stuff. Look at it like this. You want to show your audience as well while you're helping them. You're doing this with them. You have everything at the same time, and you're trying to make everything perfect. Your audience is going to be like, "I'm not going to stick around this person because they've done such a good job already. I won't ever get to that point". They start having that self-doubt. The key thing is going to be practice. You don't have to have every single one of the overlays. Maybe start with the the intro or the thumbnail, and maybe you have an outro for example. (Those are) the first two things you do. As you build the show, then you can add segment graphics. You can add videos. So, you can scale it, but you don't have to have so much at one time because then it's just too overwhelming. That's point number one. Pain point number two is that people, for some reason, think that they're going to immediately be able to monetize their live stream. I say pain point because everybody's like, "oh, I bought all that equipment." Now, you've got to figure out how to pay for all that equipment, you know? If you're struggling already with your business and growing it, then you're not going to immediately monetize live stream. You have to have an audience. You know, you have to build that community. When you go live, they're tuning in because (of) the social platforms. They want to see that you're bringing viewers, they want to see engagement. So, point number two is monetizing your live stream. There are ways to do that, but don't always set out with monetization being number one. It could take a couple of years to monetize. So, get started. Build on it, then make those investments as your business is growing. Yes, mic drop. Yes.
Dylan Shinholser:
Do you have that mic? Just a mic drop? Because I might need to get one.
Brian Kelly:
It's actually super.
Dylan Shinholser:
Yeah, super real.
Christian Karasiewicz:
That's pretty cool, actually.
Julie Riley:
I like that.
Brian Kelly:
It's actually part of a magic trick that you put in a paper bag. It's a long story, but I found one more affordable that would not break my keyboard because that's what it landed on. You didn't hear it. Oh, my gosh. Golden nuggets there, as usual, from Christian who I give a lot of hard time to. I'm going to stop because you're amazing dude, and I don't want to get mad at me. I want you to be my friend. So many great things. So, you said two years. I was like, wow. I was watching an interview. How many of you have heard of Lewis Howes? Former professional football player and turned incredible entrepreneur. He's all over the place. He was being interviewed, and the guy interviewing him asked him a question. He said, "so, Lewis, if someone came to you, and they were talking about the fact they wanted to start a podcast. Now, we're talking just the audio version. That's what a podcast really is for everyone that may not know it's audio-only. Not video, even though they're going that way." He said, "well, here's what I'd tell them. First, you got to actually be consistent. Whenever you decide to do it, do it at that same day and that same time every week or multiple times a week. Whatever that happens to be. Number two, more importantly. You must commit yourself to doing that for at least, the magic number, two years. If they are not willing to do that, I would tell them, don't even get started." We didn't talk about monetization. None of that was discussed during this Q&A. That was telling. Who was I talking about this earlier with earlier today? It's not necessarily about monetizing. It's about building your platform, and I wanted to add to that. It took me in two years. I was just hitting that moment in time of my live show. That's when the momentum started. He was spot on, and so are you, Christian, about the two years. Then using a certain strategy (that) I use, I continually ask for referrals in a certain way. I eventually landed the one and only Les Brown. Some of you know who that is. Some of you don't. I've noticed some don't and Im like,"what rock are you living under?" He's amazing, and he's been on my show. Because of that, the two-year commitment is my point. Not talking about monetization. Then what I found after doing this for two years and striving for excellence all the time in every facet, I'm talking about the preshow communication with upcoming guests and the setup and the prep that they all go through and my system makes sure they do. The show itself and then after the show, all the post-production, everything that goes into it. Once you have that, people notice and my show, without my intending it to be, became an incredible, powerful lead magnet for my business. Focus, just as Christian was stating so properly, does definitely, positively impact your business. If you do it right. You do it high quality, and again, within reason within the resources you have. Go ahead, Christian.
Christian Karasiewicz:
I was going to say. That's another point that people look at, and they want to generate revenue off of it. That revenue may not be actual money upfront. It may end up being (help) (to) drive more leads to my website. It's not necessarily driving more people to my social channels. You're following is... It's OK. That's not going to necessarily grow your business because you had five more followers on Instagram or something like that. It's potentially getting them back to your website, which can be an opportunity for them to schedule a coaching call with you, maybe buy a product from you, learn from you for example. You're not going to get every single person to become a customer, but you're going to be able to use it to generate more leads.
Brian Kelly:
Totally, totally true.
Dylan Shinholser:
That's why I do it.
Brian Kelly:
You see on the top of this screen "streaming live on" and then five. We're doing it to eight right now or seven right now. "Listen-on" down below. On the bottom, there's actually twenty five of those like us could fit them all. Roku now was on Fire TV. Look, you're not making money from those, but here's what happened. How many of you have heard of Kevin Harrington? Shark Tank? Original Shark Tank? He has a partner named, "Seth Green", and they do a podcast together. They've been doing it for years now. They have five-hundred plus episodes. We got introduced, Seth and I. I met Kevin. We shared the stage once. I'm not name-dropping, but yes, I am. It was awesome, and it was fun. Seth reached out. We were connected by someone else. We were introduced, and Seth did his own homework. He came back, we literally talked on Zoom, and he says, "wow, I did some research. I looked you up and, my God, you're everywhere." I just wanted to say, "yeah, that's right." So, you want to get out there. That's why, shameless plug, I call it, "carpet bomb marketing". You saturate with everything you've got within reason. Right? If you can automate it, it can be near or completely free. So just do it. Why not add it to your arsenal? So, it works. Just be consistent to a minimum of two years. Get in touch with people like Julie, Christian, Tim, and Dylan. You might make that even quicker than two years. I'll direct you to the shortcuts that many of us did by trial and error.
Timothy McNeely:
Touching on the monetization piece, a good friend of mine runs one of the top coaching consultancies out there. Right. Very, very successful. Runs a great podcast, great show. I ask him one day. I said, "have you need any money doing your podcast?" He thought for a second. He says, "naw, I've actually lost money doing it. The relationships that I've made...I've made millions off (of) that." If you approach it from that standpoint... There's different goals, but I always approach, you know, what's the end result? What are you looking for out of your show? Why are you doing it? That's how you can measure the success of it. Is it helping you achieve whatever goals you set for yourself?
Brian Kelly:
Totally agree. It's very similar. Isn't it? To writing a book? I'm holding up another namedrop. Yes, it's very similar to writing your own book. Because a lot of people want to write a book and make a living off of the sales of the book. I'm sorry, ladies and gentlemen, most of the time it just doesn't happen that way. If anyone comes up to you and you're talking to them... During the course of conversation, maybe you ask them what they've been up to? Or, hey, I've authored a book. The moment they say that, in your eyes, do they not lift up in an influence in your mind? Right then and there? Instantly. It builds authority. That's exactly what this live show, and live shows like it, are doing. When you're giving evidence of it by spitting it out to all of these platforms, there's no way people can't find you and know that you're serious. You know, it's showing that you have a commitment level. It's showing that you have a quality level of professionalism. It's not about the show itself. It's like, well, if I do business with that person, or will I... Will I want to do business that person? If they're professional. Yes. If they put on a shoddy show, they might give me shoddy service. If I do business with them. Does that make sense? People want to (be) representing yourself in the best. Do it the best you can, but do it. Please, don't delay. Don't try to be perfect. You heard everybody talk. Go ahead, Dylan. You had something?
Dylan Shinholser:
Well, yeah. There's indirect ways to make money with shows, live streams, and of course direct (ways). Right. Direct is selling sponsorships, ad-space, all that good stuff. The indirect monetization is so much more powerful. When I do shows or when I hop on shows or anything, it's literally just to build a top-down awareness of myself. I just want people to know what Dylan Shinholser is. Then that way, because I do multiple things, I'm never trying to sell one product at any given time. I'm trying to sell myself, and what it does is it gives me that outlet to do it. Then if you're hosting a show. Right? This maybe goes into some other topics around how to market and things like that. It's a powerful relationship tool because when you can open your platform to other people that you're looking to connect with. I'm in the business of working with influencers and throwing their events. Well, the best way to connect was get them on my show. It gave me a reason to reach out that wasn't pitchy or sales. It was more or less. Hey, man, I just want to give you an outlet, because I think what you talk about is cool. Tell my people about it. After the show, I was like, "hey, man, what are you doing next Tuesday? I need a speaker." Or "hey, man. I have some ideas (that) I want to pitch you or (some) things. They're more receptive. So, I always do shows and things not about the direct money I get, but the indirect thing. It's the indirect impact that I get from relationships, or people sharing my stuff out and people go, oh man, he sounds semi-intelligent unless they're watching this. Then then they'll go, okay, great. Let me go over to this platform that he runs with this business that he does or whatever because he sounded halfway intelligent on that show. Right? So, I think the indirect monetization is what most people don't... They don't get that the instant gratification of like that five thousand dollars sponsorship check. When I forgo that and go on to bring on much more money on the backend with the people I connect with, in the top influence that I get.
Brian Kelly:
The magic word there was "relationship".
Dylan Shinholser:
Relationships all day, every day. That's all I do- is build relationships, and how can I do it? Do more shows like this. Can I get it out? You're on like forty-two different podcast or outlets here, right? Every one of those. Every time you put a show on it, you're building a relationship with someone on that platform. Even if it's just you talking, and they're listening. You're building that relationship. Everything (that) I do, is built on: how can I develop relationships? Live streams is just an amazing way to do so.
Brian Kelly:
Posting them is one thing. Right? That's a great thing. What I learned through a podcasting expert friend of mine is the maybe not as equally important, but possibly greater importance, is getting on other people's shows. That includes audio podcasts only. He explained how his business skyrocketed when he did what he called, "podcast guest marathons". He would have someone get him booked in his team. He would carve out three days and just say get as many as you can for me. He'd do that. Then when they ask him about how to get in contact with him... This is the gold right here... It's not go to my Facebook page and look up my name and message me. He would tell them to go to his podcast website and from there to subscribe. Now he's building a following. It's genius. It's so genius. I just want to impart that. The cool thing, though, is when you're hosting a high-quality live show that opens the door for you to be a guest on many more.
Dylan Shinholser:
Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Being a guest is what goes back to the authority building. Right? If I can build my authority, I build my influence. If I do have something to sell... If I'm trying to build my brand or whatever it is or I'm just trying to get to as many people as possible to talk about events with them... That authority I call it, "authority hacking", being able to get them on your show. That'll get your show in front of their audience, and then going on to other shows helps you develop your authority. It's like writing a book. I was I'm a guest on this show, this show, this show. It's like writing a book. Your authority starts to become a little bit more when you're leveraging their influence. Right? When you're a guest on the show, if that show has a following, you becoming a guest on that show gives you authority because now you have the validation of the host that everyone is following and love. So, I can authority hack by getting on other people's shows.
Brian Kelly:
It leverges. You have a whole new tribe watching and interacting with you as well. I mean, this is one of the most powerful things people can use. If they just get out of that rut of trying to find a way to make money with it directly, that's when they'll see the real value come through. It's about building relationships. It's long-term. Not short, quick kill. I got to make a commission and run. It's build a relationship. Establish it. If you go into this with the mindset of it not being for directly making money, I personally think you have greater success. The long-term plays always work better than the short-term. Short-term works can work, but they're temporary. The long-term is a lot more permanent and lasting. Just think of all the wonderful bread crumbs you're leaving throughout the world. Through all the venues and platforms we've been talking about. In speaking terms, if you're on stage, that's what we call a "stage swap". Where you would be a guest on someone else's stage in return for them saying, "okay, but I'm going to do the opposite." We'll have you on our as well. The same thing with podcasts and live video. It works really great. Just make sure they're a fit.
Dylan Shinholser:
They've got to fit. (It's) got to makes sense.
Brian Kelly:
Both ways. Yeah.
Christian Karasiewicz:
I want to add something real quick to that. If you are consistently going live, so it's great to be consistent, go live on a regular basis, but also think about the long game. It's a couple of years, for example. Also, don't be afraid to be making changes and adjustments as things are moving along. It's not about substituting equipment. It's about looking at your process. For example, you mentioned Brian, that you have automation on some of the things. Think of smarter ways to take bigger jumps ahead. If I have to send someone an email, and I'm like, "hey, do you want to be on my show?" Then I have to deal with the whole back and forth. Well, okay. Yeah. What time? Then I have to send everything back. There are tools out there like Calendly, Harmonizely. You can send a calendar link to somebody and they can only book a certain slot for example and vice versa. This takes out the guesswork out of having to do all that back and forth. That's a way to work smarter because now you want to book people for your show. You send them one link. The person then doesn't have to send you a message back, and you can even use it to collect feedback for your show questions. There's not a lot of back-and-forth and downtime.
Brian Kelly:
Yeah, absolutely. I do that as well, and it's a godsend. I could not do what I'm doing. I would not do what I'm doing without the automation part of it. I have an onboarding form. You guys all... Most, not all of you went through it, but that was a mini version. Julie, you went through the big version. I then changed it right after I saw that. Like you said, make adjustments. That's what I did. I'm constantly doing that. Improving. I have a document automatically generated in Google Docs with your bio. The answer you had to why you think you would bring value to the show. Also, all the questions you chose to be asked for the show. Some of you didn't see that. So everything's done. The Q&A part used to take hours and hours doing manually. Now I just give them thirty-eight questions. Choose ten, and we're good. You tick the box. You choose what I'm going to ask you. (I) just made it a system, and it has worked beautifully. I don't even use the ten questions hardly. I use maybe the first three. Then we go organically like we've been doing tonight. My God, it's six twenty-nine! Are you kidding me? I'm having too much fun. Real quick. I know everyone that came on in the beginning. You heard this thing about a prize. We're going to do that real quick, and we'll come back and wrap it up. For those of you watching, remember in the beginning I said, "take notes and don't go clicking away and stuff like that"? Now I think Dylan, Julie, Tim, and Christian will also give you permission to do what I'm saying, and that is take out your phone. Take your gaze away from us for just a moment, but you'll still have to look back. Yes, yes. You can do this too. Please, do. What I want you to do....
Dylan Shinholser:
I need a vacation.
This is how you can enter to win a five-night stay at a five-star luxury resort of your choosing. Here's what you do. Take out your message app on your phone. Fire that up- your text message app. Where you would type in the name of the person normally that you're going to text. Instead, put in this number: three, one, four, six, six five-they're all doing it behind the scenes- one, seven, six, seven. I love this. Three, one, four, six, six, five, one, seven, six, seven. If you're watching this and you're not a guest, go ahead and write this down because I gonna take the screen down. I want you to get it. This will be open until the end of the evening. Where you actually put in the message... Where you might put emojis, those kinds of things, not emojis, just two words separated by a dash or a hyphen. Those words are peak (P-E-A-K) dash Vacation (V-A-C-A-T-I-O-N). All together. No spaces. Peak vacation. Send it off, then monitor your phone. You're going to get an automated response back asking you for your email address, and that will then officially enter you into the contest. Compliments of The Big Insider Secrets. Our buddies, Jason Nash, the owner. Dear friend of mine who lets us give this away every single week. Every show, actually. We do more than one a week now on average. So go ahead, get that entered. I can't wait to see who's going to win that. You're going to be asked later, you don't have to if you're the winner, to provide your Facebook information. Just your profile so we can say congrats and give you a high-five online and get others to come watch the show. To be honest, that's another strategy. We're just rolling back the curtain. That's why we do it this way. You can offer incentives like that. My friend has offered that to anyone who is my friend. If you're not my friend, you don't get it. If you're on as part of the panel here, they're all my friends. Christian may differ on that opinion, but I think he's my friend.
Christian Karasiewicz:
I'm your friend. Yes.
Brian Kelly:
Ok, good. I picked on you so hard. I apologize, but you're just you're a fun guy. I appreciate you for putting up with it. I definitely do stuff like that. Implement it and announce it in the beginning. That helps retention. I'm just pulling back the curtain for everybody. You can do different things like that. Having multiple people, I noticed, is also a little better than just one every single time. So, mix it up now and then. Alright. I know we're a little bit over, but I want to give you each another chance for a final parting tip. Anything you want on live streaming. It could be hardware, software, how you smile, what bling you wear, don't wear, your makeup. I'm wearing some, by the way, just so the guys know. Yeah, I don't know what they call it. It's not like guy up.. guy-liner, but it's like makeup. I know. That was bad.
Dylan Shinholser:
I haven't heard of that one.
Brian Kelly:
I just did that. I'm not a young fart anymore. Anyway. So, Dylan, we'll do the same thing. Go around the horn. What would be one final quick tip, or parting words of advice, you can give our wonderful viewing and listening audience?
Dylan Shinholser:
Keep it simple stupid. Don't overcomplicate it. There's things that you need to do and standards you need to meet. At the end of the day, keep it simple stupid will allow you to not overcomplicated it (and) get overwhelmed. Once you get overwhelmed, it's a wash. I would just say as a life advice, event advice, live stream advice, just keep it simple stupid and keep it moving.
Brian Kelly:
Real quick, I got to interject on that. Just so people know that that comes from an acronym K.I.S.S. So we're not calling everybody stupid, for one.
Dylan Shinholser:
Well...
Brian Kelly:
That was great. I have a friend who is Sicilian in nature, and he did this from the stage. He talked about it, and he brought up the whole thing. We're talking about doing it without complicating it. He goes, "It's like K.I.S.S. Who knows what K.I.S.S means?" Someone raised their hands. They said, "keep it simple, stupid". He goes,"Oh, no, no. It's keep it simple Sicilian." He lighten the load of the stupid part. I thought that was cool. Sorry, Julie, what is your parting tip?
Julie Riley:
You know, you're going to have to get started at some point. In order to do that, you're going to have to get over your fear. Go practice. Get those done, but also go watch and find other people that you resonate with their live shows. Start to take pieces from each of those. Now, obviously, you cannot go copy their live show and recreate it. You can pull little things from multiple different people's live shows that you like and that resonate with you. If you're comfortable and things are resonating with you, you're going to exude that comfort and that confidence out to the rest of the world.
Brian Kelly:
I love it. I love it. Alright. The man, the myth, the legend, Timothy J. McNeely. What is your final parting word of advice?
Timothy McNeely:
I'm going to close with a story. The purpose of this story is to illustrate the power of doing a show. July 20th, 1969, the first man walked on the moon. He left his footprints up there. On the moon, there's no wind. There's no rain. There's no weather, and those footprints today in twenty twenty-one look exactly like they did in nineteen sixty-nine. They're going to be exactly the same a million years from now. You too. You leave footprints on the hearts and the minds of everyone that you come in contact with. In streaming and having a platform, that's your opportunity to leave your footprints and to have an impact on people. Get clear about what your message is. What's the impact you want to have? If you do that, all of the other puzzle pieces are going to fall in place for you.
Brian Kelly:
Oh, baby. Okay, I've got to do it. I've got to do it. That was amazing.
Dylan Shinholser:
You have to get one of the little lower third animation gifts that are possible here on StreamYard. It's just a mic drop every time someone does one.
Brian Kelly:
Not nearly as much fun though, bro.
Christian Karasiewicz:
That's true. Fair. Very fair. I'll give it to you. I've got to get me one of those little squishy microphones.
Brian Kelly:
A little sound effect like I just broke my desk or something. That would be good. Alright, Christian, you've had a long time to think about it now. No pressure, but this better be a good one. I'm kidding. What do you have?
Christian Karasiewicz:
Let's see. The best piece of advice, I think, would be don't have gas or gear acquisition syndrome. You're going to watch people doing their live streams, and they're going to go and be like, "hey, I got to get that mic because this person upgraded." Oh, they got a new webcam. Remember? If you develop a plan, the whole thing is work the plan.. work the system. It's great (that) somebody else got some equipment, but it doesn't mean that you need to go out and get that yourself as well. Remember, work your plan. When you get to the certain points, maybe set that as a milestone. If I get to a certain number of viewers, for example, or a certain number of subscribers on a channel, then I might need to upgrade something. Don't be buying stuff just because someone else is doing so.
Brian Kelly:
Sales drive service. I love it. You guys are amazing. Thank you so much for coming on. Everyone who watched live. Thank you for coming on. Those of you that watched on the recording. Thank you for spending your valuable time with us, and those listening on the podcast. The same goes for you. Definitely. I hope you took a lot of notes because these are experts in the field. They are giving their value, their heart, their experience. They only charged me two-hundred thousand dollars for it. It's really been a deal. I'm kidding. They charged me nothing. You got incredible value from these amazing, amazing professionals. I can't thank you all enough. I appreciate you Dylan, Julie, Tim, Christian. Thank you from the bottom of my heart with all seriousness. I know we had some fun tonight. Thank you, Christian, so much for letting me pick on you so hard. You've been a great guy. I look forward to getting to know each and every one of you at a deeper level. If you're open to that after tonight. Appreciate you all. On behalf of these amazing people, that's it. We're out. My name is Brian Kelly. I'm the host of The MIND BODY BUSINESS Show. Until next time we will see you. Be blessed. So long for now.
Narrator :
Thank you for tuning in to The MIND BODY BUSINESS Show podcast at w-w-w dot The MIND BODY BUSINESS Show dot com (www.themindbodybusinessshow.com).
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