Special Guest Expert - Thom Van Dycke: Video automatically transcribed by Sonix

Special Guest Expert - Thom Van Dycke: this mp4 video file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Brian Kelly:
So here's the big question. How are entrepreneurs like us who have been hustling and struggling to make it to success, who seem to make it one step forward only to fall two steps back? Who are dedicated. Determined and driven. How do we finally break through and win? That is the question. And this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Brian Kelly. This is The Mind Body business Show. Hello, everyone, and welcome. Welcome, Welcome to The Mind Body business Show. We have another fantastic show lined up for you tonight. I cannot wait to introduce you to an amazing young man named Thom Van Dycke. This young man has done a lot. I keep calling him young man because he is he's probably younger than me. But you're going to find out what an inspirational individual he is and what he's gone through in his life. The different chapters of his life, where he is has been what he's gone through and where he is today and what the future holds on top of that And compelling story. Compelling man. And you're going to get a lot out of this show because The Mind Body business Show is literally a show that I had put together with you in mind. Who is you? You are budding entrepreneurs, business people. You can either be supremely successful right now or you're just starting from any end of the spectrum or anywhere in between. The great thing is, with each and every guest I have on the show, there is something for everybody. I kid you not. It doesn't matter where you are in your business. So get out your pens and paper. We're going to talk about that in a little bit. And be sure to take notes because Thom Van Dyckehas figured it out. He he has really skyrocketed to success in a relatively short period of time. And I cannot wait to share his genius, his brilliance and his experience with you, because, again, that is the whole purpose of this show and that is really successful people is what this show is all about. And I know that's a term that can be defined differently by different people.

Brian Kelly:
And what I learned in the course of about ten years of studying only successful people, I was looking for things like, what the heck makes this person more successful than me? I mean, they put their their pants on one leg at a time, or maybe they jump into them two legs at a time. Maybe. What is it? I just want to know what it is and what I found. What I'm talking about. Looking and studying at mentors of mine, like personal mentors whom I ended up being the lead trainer for, as one example, and spoke from his stage and taught his students. Others would be authors of books, other seminar leaders. I would learn from them, and I kept looking and saying, What is it that makes you so successful? These are even people that aren't even with us anymore, that are authors that have long since passed. What are those qualities? And that's where the very name of the show came. It came from that. And it's mind, body and business mind stands for mindset. What I learned was that to a person, each of these very successful individuals had developed a very positive, very powerful. But here's the kicker The most important aspect and trait was flexible mindset. And I'll tell you right now, Thom Van Dycke, he epitomizes flexible and flexibility in business and in mindset. You're going to love this guy, as I already do. And then there's body. Body is literally about each of these individuals took care of their physical being by exercise and through nutrition what they ingested into their body. And then business. Business is very multifaceted. And what these individuals had done and still continue to do, those that are still with us, they mastered the various skill sets that are necessary to build and grow a thriving business Skill sets like marketing, team building, systematizing leadership. I could go on and on. I'm sure I missed a couple of sales team building. There are many. And the thing is, mastering any one of anything, a skill set or becoming an expert in anything. As you know, being astute as a listener, as you watch this show live, you know that to become a master at anything takes a lot of time.

Brian Kelly:
And the good news is you don't even have to master every single one of the very few skill sets I just mentioned. You don't have to master them. The cool thing is if you master just one, if you focused and concentrate on just one and you began mastering or further mastering that one skill set, you can then leverage the others. That's good news. And that's what very successful and wealthy people do. They leverage everything other people's money, other people's time, other people's knowledge. And that's a good thing because we're only one human. We can only do so much that one skill set. Anybody want to know what that is? I'd love to see you comment and say I do. I do. Raise your hand. I'm not going to wait for that, though. I'll tell you that one skill set is the skill set of leadership. Even if you don't have a team in your company right now, you can still develop this by leading yourself, developing a culture within your business that you would want to see and experience as, say, an employee or a VA. And there are many books on this topic. I'm not going to go down that path right here, right now, but that is it. Master of the skill set of leadership. You can then leverage that into other individuals who have already mastered or in the process of mastering the other. Set of skill sets that you need to run and and grow a successful, thriving business. And another wonderful trait I found of very successful people was also that they were very avid readers of books. That's right. And with that, I want to segue very briefly into a quick segment I affectionately call Bookmarks.

Announcer:
Bookmarks Born to read. Bookmarks. Ready, Steady. Read. Bookmarks brought to you by ReachourPeakLibrary.com.

Brian Kelly:
Yes, There you see it. ReachYourPeakLibrary.com. And a real quick word of advice to all of you watching or listening. And if you're not watching us live, be sure to go to The Mind Body business Show.com and click on one of those buttons. There's many of them that say where and how to watch. Click it register, and then you will get notified the moment we go live and you get the link to click and you're in here watching and engaging with us. We love engagement, so we love folks to come in and comment. It's a live interactive show and what I implore of people that come to watch either live or watch the recording or even listen to the recording on one of our 35 podcasting platforms that this show is on is when you hear resources, which you will hear more, especially when Thom Van Dycke comes on stage, is rather than clicking away and going to check it out while you're watching or listening, I implore upon you to instead get out that good old fashioned piece of paper and pen and write them down. Instead, write down the URL, write down the book, write down whatever happens to come up that is of interest. Instead of going up and googling it, write down the phrase. Why do I say that? Because this happened back in my early days of speaking from stage. I would be speaking and I know I'm being I'm the speaker. I know when the good stuff is coming and I would see someone get up and walk out of the room because they got that all important text or they had to go to the restroom or they had a phone call come in. They're on silent. They had to get out. The thing is, I would hate for you to miss a single tidbit of information, especially from Thom Van Dycke, because that would just be horrible if you just take your focus away for just a fleeting moment. That's what could happen. So I implore upon you to take notes and visit these resources after the show is over. All right. Soapbox moment is now completed and over reach. Your peak library is literally a site that had developed again with you in mind.

Brian Kelly:
And it is a collection of books that I've personally read. And I bet. And why is that such a big deal? Because I didn't read myself. I didn't start reading until about the age of 47, which is now, gosh, 12 years ago. Y'all, everybody do the math. And then so I did find out, though, that this was incredibly, incredibly valuable to read books and not just any book, but very specific books on what I wanted to achieve. And so not every book that I've ever read is in this list, but every one that is here. I did read and I vet, and that means it had a profound effect either on my business or my personal life or both. And so that is there for you as a resource. Go ahead, check it out. Get those books from wherever you want to buy them from. This is not for the purpose of making money from this show. This is just a resource for you and I hope you do take advantage of it, because what we're going to take advantage of next and more importantly, is the experience and knowledge of Mr. Thom Van Dycke. Yes, indeed. We are going to bring him on right now. Here we go.

Announcer:
It's time for the guest expert Spotlight savvy, skillful, professional, adept, trained. Big league qualified.

Brian Kelly:
And there he is, ladies and gentlemen. Yes, it is the one. It is the only Thom Van Dycke. Yes. How are you doing, Brian?

Thom Van Dycke:
I'm doing great. How are you doing?

Brian Kelly:
I'm doing fantastic. I mean, I get to interview successful entrepreneurs from all over the world. You're in Canada, up north from yours truly, more in the central area. Appreciate you for coming on spending your time with us. And basically, you're here to give value to others to help them in their business. And it will happen naturally because we're just gonna have a chat and it's going to be phenomenal. I can't wait to dive in. Having said that, if you don't mind, Thom, what I'd like to do is, is give you the credit you deserve and introduce you with the respect that you deserve as well, if that would be okay with you.

Thom Van Dycke:
Absolutely. Thanks. All right.

Brian Kelly:
Thom Van Dycke is a Canadian copywriter and business consultant for coaches. He launched his business at the height of the pandemic in 2020. I mean, come on. Launched it during that and grew it. Listen to this, to six figures in the first year. I mean, people were struggling during that time. He didn't struggle. He started something brand new and then flourished. Does he know what he's doing? I would venture to say, oh, yeah. He believes that to truly engage with our ideal audience, we need to leverage the power of storytelling. Thom is married to Tara and they have, oh, my seven children. They are both advocates for foster and adoption and have welcomed 30 foster children into their home since 2011. That is it. I now get to officially and formally welcome you to the stage. Thom Van Dycke. So great to have you here tonight, my brother.

Thom Van Dycke:
And it is exciting to be here. Thanks for that welcome.

Brian Kelly:
Oh, my goodness. I mean, you you have such a great, diverse experience and I'd love to learn a little bit about where you came from, because in one of the tidbits that we discussed is that before we came on air was you used to also be a pastor and you did that for 19 years or so before starting that business in 2020. So what what number one led you to be a pastor? And then from there, what took you to take on a business during the pandemic, of all things?

Thom Van Dycke:
Well, that's a great question. Uh, nothing was in, believe me, this there's very little in our life that was actually planned. Um, so when we got I got married young at 21, and my wife was just turning 21. And the plan was I was going to take over my dad's farm and be a teacher. So I was in school already to become a middle school teacher and it just so happened that a friend of mine told me about a middle school youth pastor position at the church and thought, okay. And so we did it. We just sort of turned. And and so that started my career as a pastor, really teaching is core to who I am. And as a youth pastor, there's a lot of teaching that goes on and a lot of leadership. And so that was, I mean, just amazing, uh, leadership crucible, so to speak. One thing I didn't learn was business in being in ministry. Nonprofit world is very different. It's legislative leadership. You're pulling people along with you instead of, you know, telling them what to do. So it's a very different kind of leadership. It's really actually political leadership is what it is. And. But in at the start of the pandemic, I was part of one of Canada's largest churches. We had 4500 people attending, um, and we had 80 staff. And the church went through a really challenging time in the during the pandemic and it ended up splitting. And I was 40 that year and I kind of looked at it and went, Well, if there's ever been a time to transition out of one thing and into another, it would be now. It was it was very traumatic. Uh, if you don't, you might not have. I don't know if other careers are like this, but when you call yourself a pastor, it becomes very core to your identity. So it really felt like a piece of my identity was slipping away. Even my wife felt that because she was part of what I was doing, it was, uh, you know, it felt very big and meaningful. And now you're going to start a business. And is it as big and meaningful?

Thom Van Dycke:
Um, but I had read this book by a guy named Donald Miller called Building a Story Brand. And at the end of the book, I actually bought it for our church. And in summer, when things were slow and falling apart, I figured, Well, I'll read the book. And at the back of the book it says, You can certify to become a storybrand guide. That's what they call their certified licensed users of their framework. And I thought, sure. So I talked to a few people, decided to sort of found out whether they would be even willing to hire me and launch my business on October 1st, 19 days, 19 years to the day that I became a pastor, I started my business, Um, and I was I was really blessed. People invested in me. My first six contracts were 100% sympathy gigs. They were people who felt bad for what was happening to me and my my family. And so they're like, Ah, we'll take a risk on him. We'll hire him. And I was able to have a very, very successful first year, and second year grew from there. Um, so that's how it kind of happened, you know, it just, it was never the plan to do this. Um, but I followed the breadcrumbs. You know, I believe there's a master plan for our lives, and so you don't necessarily need to see it to have it happen, Right? But follow the breadcrumbs. And this is where I am and I'm grateful and glad for the changes that have happened.

Brian Kelly:
That is phenomenal. And, you know, I love everything about it, especially the storytelling part of it, because, you know, I often talk about that like books when people write a book, like if you were to write a book right now, guarantee someone else has written one on that very topic. By now, almost every topic has been covered, probably all of them. The only thing that makes it unique is your perspective and your stories. And it's not just unique, it makes it interesting as well. And that's it's true from stage, it's from books, it's from marketing. Because do not do people buy on emotion or or not?

Thom Van Dycke:
Right? Oh, absolutely. You got to get their hearts. You get their hearts, and you'll get them as clients. Absolutely.

Brian Kelly:
Yeah. And that's all so beautifully extracted through the the the use of storytelling. And you have mastered that. I didn't even know there was a certification about that. That's pretty amazing. I'm gonna have to look that up later to see what that's all about. That is pretty awesome. Now, storytelling, is it? Is it something you weave in? Where do you use it? In the businesses that you help? Is it through their website, copy, their email copy, maybe speaking gigs? All the above. I mean, where does that get sprinkled in?

Thom Van Dycke:
Well, I guess to to really understand it, you have to understand what story is intended to do. So if you look back at the history of storytelling. Basically, as long as there have been civilizations, we've seen storytelling. So whether you're looking at cave paintings, you know, in very ancient parts of Africa, throughout the evolution of history, you know, the first the first story that was written down that we know was the epic of Gilgamesh in a in a in literary sense. Jesus in the Bible taught through parables. But even up until today, we have, you know, scientific stories. We have David Attenborough going on and making these Netflix documentaries. It's really interesting. I noticed the other day I was watching Our Universe, which has Morgan Freeman as the narrator, and they are they give they give names to the animals that they're describing on the Serengeti. And I thought, boy, that's really interesting. They're making these these animals into characters and personifying them, and it makes them more relatable. So what's the purpose of storytelling, though? The purpose is always to bring it's always to make sense of the world. So I often say that story is one of the most ancient sense making devices. Ooh. And we've used we've used story throughout all of human history to make sense of the supernatural, the cosmos, right up until today, two different worldviews. Scientific worldviews. It doesn't matter. We're still using stories. So the human brain is wired to recognize the pattern of a story. And the pattern of a story is very simple. It's got seven parts. You have a hero who's often the main character. He wants something. Then he runs into a problem that stops him from getting what he wants. That eventually leads them to meet a guide, a Yoda, a Dumbledore, Hagrid, something like that. Right. That guide has already been through the struggle that the hero is facing. So what he does is he gives him a plan. Paints a picture of failure or success. You know, Harry Potter, if you don't do this, this bad thing is going to happen. But if you do this, this great thing is going to happen.

Thom Van Dycke:
And then the last thing they do is they call them to action. So all of our clients wake up with real problems and they wake up as the hero of their own story. When you woke up this morning, you weren't trying to solve other people's problems. You were thinking about yourself. And that's normal. That's good. That's the way you're designed to be. So when somebody enters the world like that, though, we have to position our businesses and our brands as the guide who has the solution to the problem. And never position your brand as the hero. You always position it as the guide. You cannot have two heroes in one story. When you have more than one hero in a story, you get things like the Marvel Universe. And those are incredibly confusing stories because they've got so many threads interweaving all over the place. The simplest story has one hero and one guide, and that's the way we approach it. So I go to my clients and I say, What is the problem you solve? And they say, well, we help get more leads, we help improve your profitability, we help you become more productive. Excellent. Now, how do we tell that story so that it positions your client as the hero? It acknowledges their problems. It positions you as the hero through empathy or the guide through empathy and authority. What's the plan we give them to doing business with you? How do we paint the stakes positive and fail positive and negative? And how do we call them to action? So that infiltrates all marketing collateral, whether it's on your website, whether it's in email marketing, whether your strategy is social media outreach. You can talk about this. You can talk about problems that people are facing and that engages them. You can like, for example, if there's if it's true that there are seven parts to every story and you understand where your brand fits into each of those parts, then let's say you're a photography brand, a wedding photography brand, okay? What you do is you immortalize the most important pieces of every person's life. It's their wedding. You immortalize it.

Thom Van Dycke:
You, you, you create records of it that can never be stolen. So you make the bride the hero because it's usually the bride and not the groom. You make the bride the hero and you say, How can we position our brand as the guide? Well, we say we too, have had these incredible moments in our lives that we wanted to remember for all times. And then you give you say we have authority. We've actually done hundreds of weddings and helped thousands of people to remember these incredibly important days in their lives and the lives of their family members. And so you you tell that story. And whether it's and let's say it's on Instagram in one post, you're going to talk about the character that you help. The next post can talk about the problem you solve the next post, can introduce yourself as the guide. The next post can paint the stakes negative, the next post, and you're suddenly your social media strategy takes on a cadence and a pattern that is actually recognizable by the human mind, and it just helps make sense of of what you're going to do for that bride and that groom and their family and their guests on that special day. That's how story can be used on a website. It's the same thing. Doesn't matter when you learn to tap into that. People lean in and they engage.

Brian Kelly:
That's fantastic. Is there a term associated with the seven parts?

Thom Van Dycke:
You know what I mean? Joseph Campbell talked about I think it was him who talked about the hero's journey. Um, there have been people the, gosh, you're gonna you're putting me on the spot to remember titles of books. Now, I think Carol I think the author is Carol Pearson. She's the one who took the hero's journey and she applied it to, um, she applied it to brands. They have the one book called The Outlaw and the Hero, which is really interesting, uh, which I use basically as a reference book to help my clients write their brand messaging and using story. Um, so, but, but Donald Miller really took, took these ideas and he sort of codified it. I'd say his superpower is taking concepts and putting them into patterns that are reproducible. And that's really the power of story brand. It's a, it's a framework that is easy to understand and easy to replicate. Um.

Brian Kelly:
And then so when you get with a client and you show them these seven parts, is that something that you just guide them and they fill in the blanks or do you help them fill in the blanks of those seven parts? How does that process work?

Thom Van Dycke:
You know, either or. Some clients, you know, you know, bigger, busier clients that can afford to hire you to just do it for them. They're happy to do that. Then it turns into a consultation where we're it's more conversational. And then I go away. I put together collateral. I bring it back, present it to them. Other times it is very much done with you, where we're where we're just meeting in an ongoing way and we're building that story out over a longer engagement. So it can really go a number of different ways. There's even a DIY option if you go to my storybrand.com. There's a template there. I think the first one is free. It's there's always something free. Right. So you can you can go there and you can fill it out. And it, it even has really cute little videos of Donald Miller teaching you reminding you what each section should entail. So my story Brand.com fabulous tool for your listeners. Absolutely incredible.

Brian Kelly:
I mean, and that says volumes about you. Thank you for giving a resource that you yourself don't even sell and it's not even attached to you, meaning you wouldn't if you if you captured the email address, you probably don't even know that's happening. That shows how you are out to get results for your clients, no matter what that means and people that shows a lot of character and integrity to me. Instantly it jumps off the screen right now. So I appreciate it. Thanks, Brian. Being one of those people that are rarer and rarer that to come across these days. So kudos to, you know, for having that kind of attitude toward helping people.

Thom Van Dycke:
Well, I appreciate that. I think we're like minded in that my I have a value of abundance. I happen to believe that there is enough work for everybody out there. Like, you know, if I look at this storybrand, the storybrand community. So when you're certified, you're called a storybrand guide. So we talk about the guide community. It is by and far the most abundant, generous community I've ever been a part of. And truthfully, we're all in competition with each other. We're selling a similar product, right? And it just doesn't feel like that When I was starting out, this is not a word of a lie. I did. I had never heard the term. I didn't know what top line and bottom line revenue meant. I didn't know what a lead generator was. I'd never heard any of that stuff. So I was flying by the seat of my pants. And fortunately I love learning, so I was soaking everything up. But I'd hear something. Fractional CMO. I thought I met this one client. We'd done a discovery call. I think this guy think he needs what's called a fractional CMO. I had no idea how to structure that deal, no idea what the proposal should look like. And I remember one day I popped onto Slack and I said, I think I should be I think I should put together an offer called fractional CMO. Has anybody got experience in this? And not a word of a lie? In 20 minutes, four people had offered to send me their templates, their proposals. I had two offers to jump on a call that afternoon. It was incredible. And so when you when you get that level of investment in your own entrepreneurial journey, it makes it really easy to invest in other people. And I have never understood entrepreneurs who hold everything really, really closely. I don't understand that mentality. It's such a scarcity mentality. I promise you. Everybody has a proven process and everybody has a little bit of a different proven process. And guess what? Another marketer is going to find the right fit for them. Who's not the right fit for me? And we can all just put it out there and say, My specialty is copywriting. Your strength is profitability strategy, your strength is something else. Social media, whatever. It doesn't matter. There's enough work in the world to go around that we don't have to hold it so close to our chest and not share. I just can't live that way.

Brian Kelly:
Amen, brother. I think it all comes down to a scarcity mindset where, you know, my gosh, we're they're like sharks in a frenzy over bloodied waters. Like they're just circling in attack mode and want to be the first. And it's crazy how some people can get so wound up in, like you say, holding it close to their chest and, hey, this is mine. No one else can can see this or have this. What was the name of that community again? Is it a Facebook group?

Thom Van Dycke:
Storybrand Well, the Storybrand community, it's a it's a certification community. So once you've become certified as a storybrand guide, you're part of the community. Got it. Yeah.

Brian Kelly:
And and that's my story. Brand.com is how they get to it. Yeah. Okay. Thank you for that. And just yeah, absolutely. You know, in all fairness, you know, let's let's talk about your website. Sure. That is Thomvandycke.com and want to spell it out for everyone that's listening on podcast only on audio and that's t h o m v as in victor a n and then d y c k e.com. So it's Thomvandycke.com. And actually, this is a great time to do this. Thom, if you don't mind. What I'd like to do is literally pull your website up on the screen for those of you watching. Another great reason to join us live on video, for those of you watching or just listening right now, you definitely want to do that. And then if you don't mind, we'll just go I'll just gently scroll the website and you can just talk about your business, who you're cater to, You know, what is your target market? Is it small business people? Is it large corporations? Is it anything in between? Maybe it's stay at home moms, whatever that happens to be. And then a speaking of stories, Thom, if you have a success story or two you'd like to share with us, this would be an absolute perfect time for that. I'd love to hear that as well. Would that be cool?

Thom Van Dycke:
Yeah, absolutely.

Brian Kelly:
All right. Let me pull that up. There we go.

Thom Van Dycke:
I'm just laughing. I'm laughing because as we do this, I'm like, oh, crap. I really, really should have updated the copy. But that is always the case with everybody you've ever talked to in marketing. It is. They'll always be like, you know, so you know, the hero portion of your of your website, by the way, should always be like a summary of what you do. But I do work a lot with business coaches and consultants. Um, I do offer free monthly training so you can see that they're one of the, one of the things that's important about websites, by the way, if you just pause for a second if you can, I don't know if you can. This section is one of the most important sections on any website. It's the problem section. And very few people talk enough about their client's problems and they don't want to be negative. They don't like appearing negative and that that's a that in itself is a problem. Because when I if you were let's say you were a fitness coach and you did not actually tell people what the problems were in, say, the way they were lifting or the way they were running, you know, they could injure themselves, Right. So you would never say to a fitness coach, oh, don't talk about my problems. You'd say, thank you for talking about my problems. But when it comes to our businesses, we don't talk about our client's problems and we need to because they're hurting themselves. And I'll tell you what happens when you talk about your client's problems. You know what happens. They all lean in and begin to nod. And then they think to themselves, Oh my gosh, this guy actually gets me Yeah haven't even met him and he already gets me. So anyways, that is a very important part of your website. If you do nothing else, include the problems you solve for your audience and you will have greater conversions. I worked with one business coach. You talk about success stories. I didn't even work on her website. I just did her messaging for her. Then she took it. She applied it to her own website and her conversions went up 10% in one month. Because she she changed the structure of how she was speaking about her own business. So it really does work.

Brian Kelly:
Yeah, it's very cool. We call them I call them pain points. You know, you pull out the pain points. What do people and one thing I've found, you know, you first go through this and is this this is the strangest thing to me, Thom. I can look at someone else's business and give them an overview and all the pain points with a with a snap of the fingers. When it comes to my own business, I freeze. I don't. What the heck are the pain points? I don't know. It's always I can do more for others than I can do for myself. And I found that to be somewhat universal with others. And it's true. I'm curious about what you say to that. Like, yes, get your help because an external set of eyes and brain helps so imminently, incredibly. But if you don't have someone like Thom Van Dycke in your corner yet, could you maybe go out and pull This is what I did. I went out and pulled on Facebook and other places. What are the most common pain points when it comes to what I offer? Right? And then I would get them and then I rated them. We collected them. I had my team collect them. And whatever was mentioned the most was the number one pain point and so on and so forth. Is that a valid strategy, would you say?

Thom Van Dycke:
Hands down, that's totally valid. The the other thing you can do, though, if you have a little bit of a track record already. Well, there's two strategies I could recommend. One is out of a book by I think it's Marcus Sheridan wrote it. It's called They Ask you answer um, fabulous book on content marketing. To learn how to do that, they ask you answer the number one. The number one things we should be writing about in our blogs are questions that our clients are actually asking us. I mean, that just makes sense. You think about how many people Google questions. Well, if your blog is answering the question, maybe it'll actually rank and show up anyways. So you think about what are the top ten questions you get asked over and over again when you're doing sales calls or discovery calls or working with a client. That's one thing. The second thing you can do is you can look at your testimonials and not, again, not enough businesses actually collect testimonials. But if you start to look at what are the things that people say you did for them, the opposite is the problem, right? Yeah. He fixed my open rate in my emails for goodness, you know, I call I have a friend who's a plumber. I called, he answered. You know, you call six different plumbers after hours. It's the guy who answers is the one who solves the problem. Right? So whatever your testimonials are, those show you what were the important pain points that you were solving for your clients. It's it's all right there for you. And you should be collecting testimonials. It should be part of your regular sales process. Um, can't recommend that enough.

Brian Kelly:
Totally agree. I mean, third party, um, account of how their interaction with you is, is gold. Because it's not just you the talking head of your company. Of course you're going to believe in what you do, but it takes away that factor of, well, is he a shyster or is this for real? But when you get other people talking about you, then it just adds it compounds the realness, the the authority and the integrity part of it, in my opinion. So yeah. So let's keep this thing going down. Let's see what's going. And then, um, as this goes, we don't need to cover every section on this. And because, you know, I want people to actually go out and hire you so you can show them all these individually, but you're giving everyone, including yours truly, a taste. And it tastes good. So far, I'm really liking this. And, um, do you have a success story or two you'd like to share with a specific client that maybe comes to mind where where they were stuck, what they were struggling with, and then after working with you where they are today.

Thom Van Dycke:
You know, one of the one of the interesting things that I hear a lot is that. I didn't know how to talk about my I didn't know how to talk about my business in a clear way. So I write brand scripts all the time, which are a little bit longer narratives, but we summarize those into what is a one liner. It's a 2 or 3 sentences long. It's not a tagline, it's different than that. Um, but it's a summary of what your brand message is. It's like a, it's like the little Amazon blurb that you read about, about a book. Those those statements are very, very powerful. And a lot of people will say, oh, man, like, I didn't I didn't know how to talk about my business because as a copywriter, my job is to bring clarity and to make things concise. And there's only a few ways to do that. And one of the major ways we do that is we hack and slash. So we hack people's beloved copy to death and we get it down to just the most important pieces. And I hear that over and over again. I was working with a brand called I think it's called Quick Sear Brands. They serve steaks and so and ship them across the country. They're amazing. They're a new brand. But once I started working with him, he's like, Oh, you see, most most business owners are too close to their own brand, right? They want to tell you everything about it. They want to tell you the history of their company. And nobody gives a rip that their granddaddy started the company in 1932. Nobody cares. They want to know that you can fix their problem, make them more money, fix their relationship, help them get healthy. So very often that's that's a very common theme. I hear from a lot of clients. They go, Oh, now that you say it that way, now I have the words to use when I'm talking on a sales call or in my marketing. That's really common.

Brian Kelly:
I love it. Yeah. And all this makes total, absolute, total sense. And I love marketing so much. I could talk to you for days on end and gladly you've already agreed that we can go an extra hour on the show. I'm kidding. No problem. Oh, my goodness. And this is what I often say, is that, you know, being the host of the show, having done this for nearly five years, I can say this with all truthfulness, and that is every person I interview is like going to a mini seminar. And so for everyone who's listening to this or who's watching this, you're getting supreme value and knowledge from real people like Thom, who have had real success by putting in real work and having gone through, Oh my gosh, I'm going to say it again, real life. And that's what I found is typically a lot of a lot of successful entrepreneurs don't achieve that incredible rate of success until they're a little older in their 30s, 40s and beyond. And it's because it takes a life experience oftentimes, not always. There are some that that really skip that and leapfrog that and figure it out much sooner. But what have you seen in that area, Thom? Have you seen a wide variation of age groups of folks that, you know, you've dealt with clients now you know where they are in their walk, in their journey. What is it What is your experience been when it comes to that kind of thing?

Thom Van Dycke:
You know what? There's there was a pastor that I really liked. He was a leadership guru. And he once said, we need the energy of the young, the resources of the middle aged and the wisdom of the old. And you can't escape that. You cannot escape that. There is a certain there is a certain energy that you just don't have. Like, you know, my son is 20 and the guy is driven like he's he's got his own house. He's getting married this year. They're going to flip that house in the first year. He's already bought a lot. It's got a jeep that's almost paid for. Like he is driven. He is a driven guy. He's in construction. Okay. That's amazing. But his success is going to not. It won't last. It won't be sustainable unless he learns to tap into the resources of the people who have gone ahead of him. And those resources will carry you, but only for so long. Unless you're willing to tap into the wisdom of the people who've made it all the way through. And so it's true. I think there's no doubt in my mind that the fact that I started a business at 40 was one of the major reasons that it was as successful as it was. There's just a lot of life lessons. And it doesn't matter whether you're leading in a nonprofit or a or an educational setting or as a CEO, it doesn't matter. You learn things that allow you to, like you said in the preamble, you know, manage yourself, even lead yourself. So there's lots of transferable skills that you just have to acquire. And if you ever stop acquiring skills, you will flatline and you will begin to decline. There's no you will eventually atrophy. So you have to continue to acquire the skills that keep you relevant in a in a changing in a changing marketplace.

Brian Kelly:
That is so, so true. And you know what? I'm thankful for that because if we had to stop learning and stop growing, I think life would be boring and dull. You know, if we. You know what, Thom? What if there was a ceiling, the very top that you could achieve whatever that means to you in your mind's eye. This is it. When I reach it, I've hit the top. I can go no farther. How would that feel knowing that there's nothing more to look forward to than what you just hit?

Thom Van Dycke:
It's horrible. Yeah, it's actually horrible.

Brian Kelly:
We'd go freaking nuts, you know, being entrepreneurs, we're looking for that next issue to solve, right? I mean, give me another challenge. Let's go. Bring it. Yes.

Thom Van Dycke:
Oh, no, I agree. And I mean, I think I think there's like people believe these little lies that, you know, retirement is going to be this great, you know, just this great coast. And and, you know, I was I was listening to an audio book the other day and the name is escaping me right now. But he was talking about the fact that boomers are retiring in record numbers because they're bored. Yes. They were able to retire earlier than their parents ever could because they were wildly successful, you know, and now they're retiring because they're bored out of their minds sitting at home or fishing. And it only lasts for a little while, you know? Yes. Parents parents think that their kids are going to leave the house and then they're going to be done. Nonsense. You never stop being a parent and you should never want to stop being a parent. It's it's a rich way to live. Right. You mentioned you have grown kids. You're not going to stop parenting them and then you're going to grandparent like it's it's amazing. So yeah, no, life is a is a is a steady evolution and that's the way it's intended to be. And it's just so much more exciting and fulfilling to live that way with that expectation.

Brian Kelly:
So what do you say to business owners? So they have this goal? Of of starting a business, growing a business and doing it a specific way. They reach that goal. What do you say to them about being turning a blind eye to any type of of modification adjustment, maybe an entire lane change if it comes to them and it makes sense. What do you say to those that are just stuck going, I'm going to do it my way, this way, this company forever, no matter what happens. Is there a is there a philosophy that you follow along those lines one way or the other? Well.

Thom Van Dycke:
It depends how old they are. You know. And what I mean is, like I think the older people get, the more they become ingrained in a certain way of thinking. I mean, if you think about my grandparents have been passed away now have passed away for a number of years now. But my my grandfather and my mom's side was born in 1905. Like. Think about that. Think about what he saw. Right. It's insanity. What the changes that he lived through. And there's a certain grace that I have for people who are, you know, in those later years where they just go, I just don't get it. I'm just going to keep, you know, doing handshake deals and hoping for the best. You know, because that's what they that's what they were able to do. And and us kids are nervously biting our fingers going, please don't do a handshake deal, dad. You know, because it's very dangerous. You know, we need to have good, good contracts. But, you know, when it comes to marketing and I think there there are it is as much as it is an outlier, the young person who has this atmospheric sort of. Success right out of the gate. It, you're far more likely to be successful with consistent good practices that accumulate over time. In the same way, you're going to have certain people who stick to their guns and don't change. Who will continue to have success, but they are the exception to the rule. And unless there is this willingness to be flexible and and moldable, it's just not going to you're not going to stay competitive. I mean, think about how I was thinking about my iPhone the other day and how different it looks and how I had transitioned from a BlackBerry because I love the physical keyboard. And then my wife got an iPhone and I was not sold on this slippery screen nonsense. And, you know, you think about how if I wasn't using a smartphone, now I'm just shooting myself in the foot. Yeah. Like the the tool is there to use right now. I'm not a believer that you need to use every tool available to you.

Thom Van Dycke:
I'm not at all. There are people who say you must post on LinkedIn every day. I tried. I got I basically bored myself. I just can't do it. I have no doubt that for some people that is a fantastic strategy. I've no doubt. I'm just not doing it. I rely far more on keeping a presence there. Direct messaging, personal engagement and email marketing. For me, that's been the thing which is interesting, Brian, because when email first came out, I mean, people have been predicting the death of email since literally it was invented. And that is one thing that has not died, which is very fascinating to me, honestly. Um, but you know what else hasn't died is working with integrity and ethics. You know, like there are certain things that actually are sort of true for the ages. Um. But the the the way we use it, you know, you have to you have to constantly be looking and and evolving.

Brian Kelly:
And you touched on it a little bit, is never changed as far as being successful from a marketing, and that is relationship building, which, you know, I was I will be the first to admit I shied away from doing that. Why? Because back when I was hearing about it, email marketing when you would email blast to the masses back then, it still worked. Today, that kind of email strategy doesn't work. So I was all about efficiency. I can reach more people with one blast, so I took a very long time to turn my mind around and into the camp of personal relationships because let's face it, those take a long a lot longer and they don't you can't always go into them with the expectation that a transaction is going to occur or no relationship will have been built. And so it was like, huh, this is insanity to me back then. Now I know it is the most valuable thing on the planet and the most worthwhile thing to do as well, because you establish a bona fide relationship, not transactional at first. You will find out if there is a need that you fill theirs and maybe even vice versa. But the cool thing is you'll you'll you'll be a much more rich in life because you'll have these incredible relationships of people that you want to help them and they want to help you. I don't know. I don't think you can put a price tag on on an attitude like that.

Thom Van Dycke:
I would I would tend to agree. You know, a lot of people talk about, you know, their conversion rate and success and failure and sales calls and these things. What if you went into every call saying the only metric of success I'll have today is if I add value to somebody's life? Every sales call will be a winner then. Easy, right? And people will respond.

Brian Kelly:
Yeah. And I mean, it's still true. We have to make money to survive. So that element is still there and very important, and I don't want to discount it completely at all. But when that is what we're leading in with and saying, I need to do this to make money, that's when most people I see struggle because their purpose for going about their activities is all about pulling in income versus leading with helping and serving others first, because that's when the momentum will kick in and the money will really start pouring in after that. Has that been your experience?

Thom Van Dycke:
Oh, yeah. And you're and I totally agree with you. If you don't ever ask for a sale, you can't expect to get the sale. So. Yeah. Um, but I was, I was, I was complaining to a group of friends the other day, business friends. And, uh, and I was saying I got all these proposals out and I'm like, they're not coming back in. And I was frustrated, and one of my friends just texted back. He said, look, just don't, don't, don't act out of the desperation. Right. Don't let desperation influence how you act today. I went, man, that's good advice. That's very, very good advice. And I am kind of an emotional roller coaster. I get a I get one proposal out. You know, you get one nibble on the hook. And I've had the best work day ever. And then the fish falls off the hook and you're like, I will always be a failure. I will never make money. My family's going to be destitute. My children are going to go without food. So, I mean, I, I, I fall into that trap very, very easily. Um.

Brian Kelly:
That is so true. I think that's universal. Buddy.

Thom Van Dycke:
Good. I'm glad to hear that.

Brian Kelly:
Thank you.

Thom Van Dycke:
Normalizing my emotional roller coaster.

Brian Kelly:
Yeah. You have even a micro success, and you're on the top of the moon, and then. Then it goes away. And. Yep, you feel like the whole world just came crashing down. And maybe I should just do something else. Why am I doing this? And all the negative things? It's unbelievable how many times I've thought about quitting. I can't count on both hands or both feet and both hands together. Right? It's three times. Yeah, it's a doubt that comes in based on lack of success.

Thom Van Dycke:
Totally. Absolutely. And lack of success is just actually a great opportunity to learn. So then it's not a lack of success. It's just a learning opportunity. But if only.

Brian Kelly:
It didn't feel that like it was a lack of success at that moment. That is true. Yes. But you're saying things like that, very powerful because that will literally lift you out of those those doldrums, those funks, because, you know, I've done that where I'd actually like just say, you know what, I've had it and I would just take half a day or a full day and just say, I'm not touching this anymore. And you know what? I'm really contemplating just throwing in the towel. And then a day would go by and I'd get back on social media or whatever, and I'd see other people, entrepreneurs doing their stuff, and the bug would bite me again. I'm like, What the heck was I thinking? What an idiot to ever contemplate quitting. I'm back, baby. You know, it's like it's this roller coaster. And I think that's why are so few successful entrepreneurs out there? Because it's it's not an easy ride to go up and down like that.

Thom Van Dycke:
It's true. And I'll tell you, I'll tell you a little a little brain trick that you can use. And I learned this through, um, marriage counseling and also working with kids who have trauma. You'll notice in your marriage when you have a a big fight, maybe it lasts a couple days because it's a it's a big one. You begin to think that your whole marriage has been a sham, right? In fact, you have trouble even remembering a good time. And there's actually what happens is your reptilian brain, your feeling brain always wins over your rational brain. Always. There is no time when there is a war between feelings and thinking that feelings do not win. And I can prove it to you if you're afraid of a snake. If I'm talking to a room of people and I say, Who in here is afraid of a snake? Five people put up their hand. I can even tell them at some point in this talk, I'm going to throw a rubber snake at you. Don't worry, it's rubber. Guess what they do. You throw it at them. They freak out because their feelings take over their rational brain. Your brain actually ceases. It is incapable of remembering the good times when it is feeling bad. So a trick you can use is to be preemptive. Make a make a word document, take a notebook, whatever you want, and write down the success stories you've had. And write them out like a scene in a movie and then give that scene a title. Because we're more likely to recall a title than we are a memory. And then when you're feeling kind of cruddy, you can access that and remind yourself that even though it feels this way, it hasn't always been this way. That becomes an extremely powerful tool to make it through whatever situation, whether it is with, you know, relationally or in business or whatever it is it can be. And I'm not disciplined enough to do it when things are good. But. I know. I know that it can be very powerful.

Brian Kelly:
Absolutely. I appreciate that. And that can help so many people. You talked earlier. My gosh, I just look at the time. I can't believe we're already there. So you have a gift to offer? I don't know. It's been some time since you came on board for this this, uh, this great interview that you're. You're doing. It has to do with an AI course. Is that still valid? Yeah, it is valid. Bring it up on the screen and show. And one of the things I wanted to point out as you talk about that or before you do, is that you were talking about how important it is to continually stay on top of the curve, to continue to learn. And this is a perfect example. And that is I, I believe firmly that those who do not embrace it and start learning and utilizing it will be left behind because it's a technology that grows very rapidly. That being said, you have a magnificent gift. I'm going to put it's a two parter on the screen and let you take it away. And so.

Thom Van Dycke:
Yes, this is a very short it's a mini course. You can do it in a couple hours. Okay. I call it outright AI, and this is why it is true. I am AI has made me 30% more efficient as a copywriter. 100%. But I'm starting to realize how much of a crutch it is to people, and they assume that it can take over the job of good copywriting and it can't. And especially when you're talking relationally. And now I'm talking to coaches, consultants, fractional service providers, where you're in a where you have to build a trust relationship. If you're going to rely on AI to build that relationship for you with your prospective clients, you're in trouble. So I wrote a course called How to Outright AI, and I can teach you what are the things that I could never reproduce. And I think you mentioned it earlier, Brian, It's our stories. I doesn't know you and your client needs to know you. And we have shied away from sharing stories. If you get onto my subscriber list, you will get stories from me. Most of them are about myself, about growing up on a farm. The one I sent this morning was about horseflies. How swatting horseflies is different than landing sales. I'm a storyteller. Like I have to. Right, Right. So. But we have to figure out how to keep our human, our humanity, even if we use the power of AI. That's what this course is about. I'm making it free. Usually sell for 150 bucks, but your listeners can get it for free in perpetuity. Even if they're listening to this a year from now, I'll make sure that it remains available as an offer, because I just mean AI is not going away. Humans aren't going away. So I really want people to to get the most of it. If they use that coupon, it should apply it automatically the coupon. But if for some reason it tries to charge, you just use the code outright and then you'll be able to get it.

Brian Kelly:
All right. Let's let's save that for our audio only, folks. So you want to go to the website or the URL and it's Thom Van Dycke. So we've spelled that before, but we'll do it again. T h o m v a n d e dot thrive cart thrive cart. All one word.com forward slash. And it's a play on the word outright. It's a different spelling it's forward slash and this is all lowercase now out hyphen write w-r-i-t-e so outright get it hyphen I hyphen course. And you can then just.

Thom Van Dycke:
Use the coupon. Then just use the coupon.

Brian Kelly:
Yep. Exactly. And you can stop there. And then when you go to the checkout, put in the coupon code with no hyphens, it's outright MBB. So MBB stands for Mind Body Business. Thank you for doing that by the way. So it's out W-r-i-t-e MBB as the coupon code and my god and doing it in perpetuity. That's rare. I don't know of any guests I've had on this show that's actually said that and offered that and I'm deeply, deeply appreciative of it. And you know, I'll be one of the first ones to opt in unless someone's going to beat me to it here. That's watching and listening right now. Uh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for that. And we have one more gift to give away, but and I know we're going a little over time. I hope that's okay, Thom. Seriously. Fine with me. Because I like to end every show with a question, a specific question. And the reason I do that is I did this for a while, for a number of years in the beginning of this show where I would randomly pick this question. And then I started realizing, my gosh, the answers are profound. And so I decided I'm going to end every show with that. And literally I'm compiling a book with all of your answers. Yours will be one of them. Thom Cool. And no pressure, because here's the beautiful thing. Well, I'll tell you in a minute, but real quick, I have a prize of my own to give away, so feel free. Please write this down first. Go to write this down. Thom Van Dycke. I'm not going to spell everything again. ThomVanDycke.com/out hyphen right hyphen hyphen course maybe I should say dash and then coupon code is out. Right. So be sure to write that down and do that after the show is over. Go there and get that amazing free gift and treat it as high value because it is very highly valued. And one more, everyone who watches this show live. Gets to qualify for a five night stay at a five star luxury resort vacation Stay.

Brian Kelly:
Compliments of my company. Who's sponsoring it? Reach your peak. And to do that, I'm going to pull that up on the screen real quick. This is for only for people who are watching it live right now. And you'll want to write this URL down after the show is over. Go there and opt in and our team will see that. We'll pick it up. Don't worry, it'll come after the show is over. We'll be fine. Here it is. I'll put it up on the screen. And that is you want to go to report? I am forward slash vacation all lowercase. That's report. I am forward slash vacation. Write that down and I cannot wait to see who that winner is going to be. Back to Thom Van Dycke. And our our final question of the show, which you do not want to miss this. Those of you watching and listening and Thom, this is this is a phenomenal question because here's the deal with it. There is no such thing as a wrong answer.

Thom Van Dycke:
My favorite.

Brian Kelly:
It doesn't exist. So it's not a test and it's personal in a sense. And the way it's personal is because the answer will be unique to you. That's the only thing that makes it personal. I know that having done this for years and asking this question and the other thing is the exact opposite is the case is that the only correct answer is yours, because again, it's unique to you. And if it takes you a microsecond or if it takes you several seconds to think of the answer, it is still 100% bona fide, genuinely perfect because it is your answer. Is that cool?

Thom Van Dycke:
Very cool.

Brian Kelly:
Has the buildup been just enough?

Thom Van Dycke:
Yeah, hope it's a good question. I'm like, on the edge of my seat.

Brian Kelly:
I love it. Yeah. And I just love this. It's the most amazing question I get to ask on this show. So here we go. Are you ready? I am. All right. Thom Van Dycke, how do you define. Success.

Thom Van Dycke:
For me, success means that my kids, no matter what age they are, always think of home first when they want to celebrate or when they're in a crisis. That home has been a safe place to land, regardless of what's going on in their life and regardless of how old they get. That's success to me.

Brian Kelly:
And true to form another amazing, amazing, profound response And here's this is something I find extremely encouraging and interesting, Thom. And that is I mean, I've been doing this a long time. Not one, not a single person, including yourself. Not one said that it had to do with their primary reason for success, Had to do with something regarding money. Mm. Isn't that interesting? And it's, I think in part due to the fact that I interview successful entrepreneurs. Now, those that are just starting out have a scarcity mindset, and money is more on the forefront of their mind and they're more into the material things, especially when they're younger. But when you bring on successful people that have been through it already, that's not the number one priority and it never really is. If you really sit back and think about it, even if the young ones would. But I just find that fascinating, that and encouraging. Like I said, that no one that I've interviewed on this show ever had money as their definition of success or the core reason behind it. It's just phenomenal. I love it.

Thom Van Dycke:
It gives yeah. It gives me hope for humanity right there. Brian Yes.

Brian Kelly:
Yes. And it just it reinforces it every week I do this show, it's never about money. It's and yours. This is the other thing. There have never been two answers that were the same. Not yet. Excellent. I don't know how that's happening. And yours was one of the most unique ones. I'm like, I love this. He's all about family and your kids. That's the first thing in your head was your kids. I'm like. That's that's the that's the essence of a beautiful human being. And that is Mr. Thom Van Dycke right there, ladies and gentlemen. What an amazing guy. I am so blessed to have met you, Thom. I appreciate you. Thank you for bringing this incredible amount of value, of experience, of wisdom. I mean, books you mentioned several books. I've written several of them down. I'm going to go get those books and read them and check out this style or story. I forgot the name of the story. I turned the page.

Thom Van Dycke:
Story brand. Story. Brand brand.

Brian Kelly:
Yes. I actually did get my, uh, my my phone tablet working, so I was taking notes while we were going over it. And Ron Pete was on. But I appreciate you, brother. Have a great, great evening to you and to everyone out there watching and listening. Please do these two things after we sign off. Number one, go out there and continue or start crushing it and serving more people. And number two, above all else, please, everyone be blessed. That is it for us right here. On behalf of the amazing Thom Van Dycke, I am your host, Brian Kelly of The Mind Body business Show. Until next time, we will see you again. So long for now. Take care, everyone. Thank you for tuning in to The Mind Body business Show podcast at www.TheMindBodybusinessShow.Com. My name is Brian Kelly.

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